22: Lucian Tarnowski on Speaking the Future into Existence

Lucian Tarnowski
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The Unbeaten Track
Baba Amte
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Buckminster Fuller
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2012: Time for Change
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Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello. Hi, welcome to this new episode of the mango TV podcast. Today, I’m very excited to have Lucian Tarnowski. Lucian is a serial entrepreneur, filmmaker, and planetary transformation architect. He’s a designer of the app game, United Planet, a time traveling immersive reality to create mythologies from a thriving future.

He’s on a mission to deliver on the decade of transformation and see the vision for a planetary civilization. In harmony with all life, Lucian focus on reverse [00:01:00] engineering the story from the future. United Planet as a goal to transition six trillions to finance a thriving future this decade. Lucian has over a decade of experience in designing and powering online communities that connect diverse stakeholders around the shared purpose.

For 10 years, he was a founder and CEO of Brave New. which advise fortune 1000 clients. Lucian has been honored as a young global leader by the World Economic Forum and has been an active participant in systemic transformation gathering for 15 years. Welcome Lucian. 

Lucian: Such a delight Giancarlo. Thank you.

Giancarlo: I’m very excited because Lucian just moved to Ibiza. I’m just like, when did you move? Like a year and a half ago, a year and a half ago. Yes. Time flies. And we had like. Three or four people that simultaneously recommended that we meet. So I thought this is a good fit. Um, so as I usually do, I [00:02:00] try to create a little bit of content, context on why, why Lucian on Mango TV and, uh, I think it’s quite self explanatory.

Mango TV started mostly as a, um, um, documentary, um, psychedelic research. And then from there is been evolving into. The evolution of humankind, the difference with transformation and, and, and, um, regeneration, the, um, this idea of, you know, what does it mean to be a modern seeker? And, uh, and Lucian seemed the right person.

Um, term of looking at the future and looking, you know, what, what, how can we live in this planet in a more harmonious way? Um, so Lucian, why don’t we start a little bit with, um, your personal journey and, uh, like most people that come and sit in this chair, um, there was a moment in their life where they decided, I want to help this planet [00:03:00] rather than focus on myself.

What, what, what was it for you? I, 

Lucian: I would say that, that moment was actually my birth. I, I, I, I, I, I, uh, you know, I was born to parents that were very, very active in societal transformation. My, my, my father, uh, Was an amazing man he lived through the war in Poland and he ended up getting polio in the 50s and Spent his whole life in a wheelchair and he He in the 60s, between 64 and 67, he led the world’s largest expedition, uh, to study disability, uh, throughout the world.

And he did, um, over a hundred thousand, uh, kilometers in his wheelchair. And filming for the BBC, he wrote a, uh, a book called The Unbeaten Track. And, uh, so I was born, um, Into activism, you could say. My, my mother was very, very [00:04:00] active in, in, in a whole range of different communities, and so it, for me, it was always present, and I would say I was born with an awareness that, uh, I was on a mission.

I was on a mission to transform this world. I’ve never not known that. But at what age you had that awareness? I mean, I had awareness when I, as long, I’ve never, I cannot remember a time where I wasn’t aware. Even my siblings would tease me about it as a child. But where 

Giancarlo: were you when Oliver Stone was doing Wall Street, and if you want a friend, buy a dog.

Well, he didn’t, he didn’t touch you at all. 

Lucian: It, it really, I lived very, um, you know, I had more animal friends than humans until I was 13. Um, you know, I was very, I was like a little duck to do little. I was very, I was raised in a particular bubble in England, in, in England. Um, and, you know, a beautiful, like, country upbringing, countryside upbringing with lots of animals and, um, [00:05:00] but then I always had this awareness because my father, uh, and my brother and I would travel all over the world.

We traveled to something like 70 plus countries. And, um, dad created with Baba Amte, the protege of Gandhi in India, the world’s largest community around disability and leprosy. And so I had a childhood home in India that was where my family was this enormous community of leprosy patients, blind, deaf, orphans, um, you know, community around disability.

And so I was always very acutely aware of my privilege, uh, and acutely aware of my, Uh, responsibility to, um, to better, um, to give back and, and, and I would say more than give back. I would, I would say even transform. Um, my father very much raised me, uh, with a, a view that the current system that we know as, you [00:06:00] know, society and the economy is going to collapse in my lifetime.

And that I would be. Part of the, um, you know, part of the team that could think about what comes next, you know, my father was such a visionary and he was aware of the, you know, how the food systems would collapse, how our water security was, was, was in jeopardy. He was aware of like, The failing of democracy and the nation states weren’t really fit for purpose for this planetary age.

And so I don’t remember a time where I wasn’t aware of my commitment to transform this world. And I think that’s been part of my entrepreneurial journey is I’ve always been focused on how do we. How do we effectively, uh, share knowledge? How do we create these, um, talent communities where we can bring the best of us to transform, um, aspects [00:07:00] of society that, that obviously can be improved?

Giancarlo: Well, but what do you think was the reasoning behind your father’s vision of this, this collapse of the system? That, um, capitalism was not compatible with the. The cycle of nature. Yeah. I think 

Lucian: that’s the essence of it. That, um, the, the, the system we had designed, um, as humans, uh, for society was not, was not, um, you know, was not in, in, in line with, with planetary boundaries.

It wasn’t, it was extractive, is extractive. And, um, uh, Dad saw so well the, the, the, the, what would happen when we, um, overstepped our, uh, our role and responsibility on the planet. 

And 

Lucian: so he was always aware of it. And so I started, you know, my entrepreneur journey, I, I, I took over the foundation he ran, uh, that he had started in, in, in the early [00:08:00] sixties.

I took over when I was 18. And so I raised, um, quite a lot of money. I, I created a school, um, Uh, in India to train blind girls, IT skills, and then we created a, a, a, a hostel to house over 150 blind girls while they were going through the school, uh, you know, in my, while I was still in my teens. And so I was very actively involved in, in, in transformation.

And then, uh, You know, all through my university years, I was fundraising. Even my school years, I was like the number one fundraiser in school. Um, you know, I remember even, even younger when I was, you know, my mom would, uh, have me raise money for various charities that she supported. And it was my favorite thing to do.

And 

Giancarlo: you never had not even a moment of doubting Of wanting to focus on yourself and go to work for Goldman Sachs or something. 

Lucian: Never, never, never that, uh, I mean, I would say, you know, uh, this, I, I would say [00:09:00] serving the planet for me is, is serving oneself because it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, for me, it’s a common identity.

I’ve always felt a planetary citizen. This notion of being British, American, et cetera, always felt like a, uh, it felt, felt like a compromise to me. It felt like a story. that wasn’t based on reality, that has been popularized. Um, but it wasn’t necessarily like the way the world is, and it wasn’t how nature sees the world.

Beautiful, beautiful. And 

Lucian: so I’ve, I, I, you know, I’ve always felt, um, I had the permission to think originally. Um, and, and I think that was, that’s a big part of this journey I’ve been on. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. So, before we jump into the up game, what would you say was in, you know, in childhood your, um, biggest satisfaction, the moment that you felt really good about, I’m doing this, you know?

Lucian: In, in childhood. You know, there’s been so many [00:10:00] steps along the way, you know, so I would say, you know, that cathartic, I’d love to go to that cathartic question because it is, it is the origin story of United Planet, which, which is such an audacious mission. Um, but the origin story, I don’t think nobody has ever raised six trillion.

Well, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, and we’ll get onto the six trillion piece, but, um, but you know, I, I, I had spent 10 years as an entrepreneur. running a company called Brave New, um, and was involved in designing something like a thousand multi stakeholder communities, um, everything from Military Connect, which is the largest community on the web for veterans.

Um, we supported over 20, 000 veterans transition from the military into civilian jobs to, um, 100 million healthier lives, which connected, uh, over 600, um, healthcare stakeholders, um, that rep, that, that serve, um, Uh, 100 million people and it was all around population health. Um, and so I had seen a lot [00:11:00] of, um, communities transform and, and, and developed a real skill for how to bring different stakeholders together to share knowledge, to collaborate, to co create the future they wish to see.

And, um, back in 2017, I had a very, you know, crucible year, you could say. Um, my mum died of cancer, um, in the beginning of January, uh, on the 8th of January, and, um, two days before my mum’s funeral. Unexpectedly my stepmother, my other mother for 30 years, um, died in in the night of a heart attack. And so I lost both of my mothers in in two in the space of two weeks.

Um, which was a kind of, you know, a a a huge blow. I was, And at the time, my, my former wife was, was pregnant with our daughter, Leonie. And, um, you know, three months later, our daughter was born and, and Leah nearly, nearly died at [00:12:00] childbirth. And so I had a very, uh, you know, very, those three months were brutal.

And at the same time, when my stepmother died, I inherited some, some money from my father. And I felt at the time that this wasn’t my money, that this was my father’s legacy money. And I wanted to do something that was worthy or noble of that capital. It wasn’t a huge amount of money, but enough for me to take time of being like, I can have a period of time in my life where I don’t need to focus on making money.

I’d always had a talent of that. I would been kind of successful in my, in, in, in my ventures. Um, but I felt this was a time that I could really design something original. that I could use my privilege for something of purpose. And so I went through three phases. Um, phase one was we created this open source digital platform that [00:13:00] connected lots of different tools that would create a replacement for, uh, communities to be able to operate and share knowledge and create a data commons.

And what I started to realize, I was like very much repeating what I had been doing with Brave New. And so then I had the opportunity to go into phase two, and that was to create what we called a prototype planetary embassy. It was this space called Savannah House in, in San Francisco. And so it was a 8, 000 square foot historic mansion, one of the most iconic homes in San Francisco that’s actually built on top of the well of the Ohlone people.

So it’s the oldest gathering place in the whole of San Francisco. And it was built by William Filmer, who built the Golden Gate Bridge, and so he actually conceived the Golden Gate Bridge in the house. And he was the first Grand Master of the Masons. So it’s got this very interesting history. And, uh, and so I, I, I had this view that, um, you know, nations are more of a kind of a problem than a solution in [00:14:00] creating planetary thriving.

And so if we have, if we have national embassies, you know, British embassies, American embassies, French embassies, Spanish embassies, Chinese embassies, et cetera, Why don’t we have planetary embassies? It’s kind of, uh, hiding in plain sight is an obvious solution. You know, we’re living in a planetary age.

Our survival as a species and a planet depends on our planetary perspective and our planetary action. Um, but nation states continually fail to rise to the challenge. And so I was proposing that we partner with city mayors all around the world and, One of my mentors and kind of a, almost like a second father to me, um, Benjamin Barber created the Global Parliament of Mayors, which is now C40.

And, um, I had proposed that what if we could create a model where we would partner with city mayors around the world to establish a planetary embassy in every major city. And, you know, it’s an important [00:15:00] fact is that 70 percent of the world’s wealth sits in 40 cities. What if we could align those 40 cities with a planetary embassy?

In America? 70 percent of the planet’s wealth sits in 40 cities across the world. And, and so the notion was that those cities actually have more in common than the nations from which they, they, they sit in. And so cities could be a smarter way. It’s actually a long way, you know, cities operating together as a much older system of governance than nation states.

And so this was kind of back to the ancient future. And so I took on this house, I rented this very special house, and we put a 50 person dining room table in. We hosted over 3, 000 people from over 1, 000 organizations around their visions of the future. And it was there where I really started to hear this pattern of, uh, opportunities of transformation.

I, I, I met so many [00:16:00] people every day, the, the, in, in this space. What 

Giancarlo: was the vision of the future at the moment? 

Lucian: I mean, you know, the vision for me has always been, how do we move to a planetary civilization? How do we, how do we leapfrog? What is clearly a failing civilization, that what we’re living in right now, um, you know, the extractive capitalism is not in harmony with the planetary boundaries.

It’s not in harmony with even, um, justice, uh, and peace. And you know, we’ve been conquered by a lot of stories that just aren’t 

Giancarlo: true. Uh, and instead, if we see ourself as hurt citizen. Then those resources would be the common resources and that would be the change of mentality. 

Lucian: Yeah, there would be the rise of the commons.

And so that’s why in, in, in United Planet, we initiate, uh, we initiate people as Gaians. You know, we’ve, we’ve really developed this identity of being a Gaian, which is, you know, the name for the [00:17:00] planet we all share. And so we’ve developed an oath, for example, that says, uh, you know, we are, we are a united planet.

I am Gaan on my honor, I commit to a thriving civilization in harmony with all life. Mm. And so it’s a very simple oath that we, everybody that participates in the game takes because the, and I’ll go more into the game because that was really birthed out of, um, Savanna House, some Savannah Foundation.

There was the platform I was using to fund these experiments of what could it. What could work in creating and designing. The next system, you know, and that’s really what I was asking. So many people and going to various meetings and hosting events 

Giancarlo: and and you felt there was the desire and the energy and the resources and And the opportunity to put together all these ideas, you felt there was a group of talented individual that [00:18:00] wanted to change this, uh, I know it, I 

Lucian: know it, I know so many of them.

I’ve made, I’ve made it my, you know, the, the, the focus of my being for the last really 15 years is to get to know so many of these people. And so I, I have such a privileged view into the future in that. I’ve probably listened to more people’s visions spoken in the present tense than anybody, than any, any human.

Yeah. And so I’ve got such a, um, like, uh, such a gift, um, that I’ve received from the collective intelligence of so many. Um, and, and so I felt, I felt that, um, a game was necessary to transform our, our world. I was a big believer in and am a big believer in Buckminster fill. Uh, vision who make 

Giancarlo: a current system obsolete.

Lucian: Yeah, to make the car, you know, you don’t change, uh, you don’t change things by fighting the existing reality to change something, build a new model that makes existing model obsolete is one of his quotes, but [00:19:00] one where he put his chips was on what he called the world game. And he believed that we would go through a design science decade where we would go from weaponry to livingry, and we would gamify how we transform every aspect of our society.

And I was very touched by that vision. And we would, 

Giancarlo: we would gamify, say that, 

Lucian: repeat the last thing, we gamify, we would turn into a game. Yeah. how we would transform every aspect of the world from, from, from weaponry, from fighting each other and competing with each other to living in peace and harmony and actually co creating cooperating with each other to our fullest potential.

Because ultimately I’ve always had the view that talent, human capital is the most wasted resource we have. And if we can, transform how we understand and unleash human capital, we can quite literally redesign every aspect of our world. And so, uh, [00:20:00] I sat about with a, uh, uh, an experiment of how would we create Bucky’s world game.

And back in Davos, it was my back in Davos in 2019, during the world economic forum. I think then it was my, 11th time in Davos, and so I built up quite a network, uh, including the email addresses of every single attendee. And so I, I was very inspired by this story, it’s a really amazing origin story, uh, that began with the space race.

And so back in, back in 1962, JFK gave that famous speech to Congress where he said by the end of the decade we’re going to put a man on the moon and bring him safely back to earth. And what happened following that was amazing. James Webb, who ran the Apollo program, And ultimately, you know, landed us on the moon.

He knew in 1962 that we didn’t have the technology or the know how to get to the moon. So what did he do? He threw [00:21:00] the biggest party NASA had ever thrown, inviting the brightest minds from across America to come to NASA to celebrate landing on the moon. in 1962, you know, as if it was up and as if it had happened.

And I heard that story and I was like, that’s genius. That is, you know, we talk about magnetizing the visions that we wish to see and, you know, manifesting our own reality, but the same principles apply on the collective. The same principles apply in as an individual to the group, to the collective. And so I, back in 2019.

through this celebration of the achievement of the global goals, the achievement of the sustainable development goals, and this birth of a planetary civilization, and invited these world leaders to come together to celebrate their contribution to creating this next, this evolution in civilization. And it turns out that it was a, Smash hit, you know, it was, people were queuing around [00:22:00] the block.

We had over 400 people come. It was one in one hour after 20 minutes. And we had world leaders come and speak from themselves in the future about their contribution of how we achieved it. 

Giancarlo: 10, 15 years in the future. 

Lucian: Uh, this was, this was, we used 2030 as the frame. So, so the timing was 20 2019. It was 11 years in the future.

Exactly. It was, it was 11 years in, in, in the future. And so, and we had people like, um, you know, Rick Dolin. Um, spoke in 2020. We had the CTO of NASA who now runs the space company Astra. We had the Dean of Said Business School in Cambridge. We had, you know, um, people from all over the world, uh, um, the founder of Africa Rising and just amazing humans come and speak.

And then everybody would be at the party as themselves in the future weaving stories. And so I knew this was a formula And so I started throwing these parties all over the world. Um, we did them in Burning Man. We did them in Envision Festival. 

Giancarlo: Maybe let’s, let’s, [00:23:00] let’s, let’s stay a little bit on the, on this formula.

I’m thinking about many, you know, evolutionary coaching, life coaching, even Tony Robbins. You know, in they have this practice where you don’t just visualize something to happen. You put yourself in a place where it has already happened. And you know, if you, whatever it is, you want to marry this girl, started this permaculture project, whatever it is, don’t visualize, Oh, I wish this could happen, but you’re already there.

You’re in the timeline. You’re in the present 

Lucian: tense. This is the key point of this. 

Giancarlo: So what, what happens energetically, why this has power, how this feeling of, okay, let’s assume that my dream is to create a permaculture project. And I’ve been looking for the funds, I’ve been looking for the know how and I’ve been doing this meditation where, okay, I’m already sitting in the field and around me, there’s this nine principle permaculture.

Why is that [00:24:00] more powerful than just not doing it? 

Lucian: Well, there’s, there’s two ways to answer that. There’s the science, uh, which is an amazing work called hyperstition, which is the collective equivalent of what you’re describing. So you’re talking about like manifesting the future where you wish to see and attracting that in like kind of that abundance mindset.

It’s got lots of words and a gazillion self help books around that, but it works at a collective level as well. Yeah. It works at a societal level. So, hyperstition is the, um, it is a repeatable, you can study this and it, you’ll get the same results every time. So, it’s a provable, uh, it’s a provable phenomena.

That when a group of people, a community, Um, share a worldview, they actually create the feedback loops that accelerate towards that worldview becoming a reality. And so it’s a very interesting, I guess, the science behind manifestation. 

Giancarlo: Let me, let me add the one, one, one story in, in 2012 [00:25:00] time for change.

We interviewed Dean Radin from the Noetic Science Institute, and he has done this experiment where he put. Number generate random number generator all over the globe. And they observed that when they are event that a lot of people, a certain threshold of people would follow like the Audrey Simpson trial, these number generator will not be random anymore.

Lucian: I’ve heard stories about that. This has been so, 

Giancarlo: so because I see, I can, you know, our audience is pretty aligned, but I can see people raising the eyebrow when we talk about, you know, manifest manifesting and intangible frequency, but. You know, there is some science around this idea that when a certain number of people do a certain things, there’s an energetic change.

Lucian: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and that’s what, that’s where I was getting at the science first of this. And then actually there’s the phenomenon of the mindset where, you know, the, when we align our being. around a, uh, [00:26:00] uh, uh, uh, a transformation. It’s the first step, even when we speak it, you know, in Judaism, for example, like, when you speak that which you, uh, you speak out loud, you’re putting those words into action.

And so the, the, even something as simple with the up game as speaking the future in the present tense, if you think we’re, we’re so used to, um, Experiencing other people tell stories of what they’re going to do. Most of those stories go, goes in one ear and out the other. We forget most of it. But we have this oral tradition that’s been developed over 200, 000 years of evolution, of societal evolution.

This oral tradition where we remember the stories that, uh, that are told that have already happened. We have a way, uh, larger memory recall rate for people telling you stories that have happened than people telling you about what they’re going to do in the future. So that’s one of the powerful things around what we call the Gaian tradition, which [00:27:00] is this oral tradition of the next society.

of the next, of the future, uh, that we develop in the game. Um, the, the, the Gaian tradition is speaking the, speaking the future in the present tense. And, and that has a very powerful resonance with people because you start to listen with your intuition. And you start to use your whole faculty of your being, all of your different communication senses, to listen to what’s being shared.

And, and then it’s, you know, there is a, there’s definitely a language, this is like a, this is like a muscle that you can develop. Um, that, that is, I think of it as like remembering the future. It, it’s quite literally being able to listen with your whole being, to Um, visions where you’re listening with does this resonate with my being?

Does this resonate with everything else I’ve heard about? [00:28:00] Uh, about the transformation of society. And you could start to quite literally remember the pathways forward and use one’s intuition as the guiding force. And that’s the key point I often introduce Gaians that come to the up game, is we need to flip the model instead from our head to our heart to our intuition.

We start with our intuition, then we go to our heart, then we go to our head. And we go in that order because that’s when we’re, when we’re looking to create original transformative visions of, uh, for the planet. It’s really important that we become vessels for those almost like noospheric, uh, the noosphere is this amazing con concept of that ideas have currency and they have their own life form.

And humans become like, the recipients of those noospheric downloads, like a noospheric pole position. I love the notion of [00:29:00] that. We’re like race cars and the, the, we’re, we’re, we’re going through this life where we’re listening to stories that want to be told by the universe and by this, by this currency of, um, transformation.

Giancarlo: Amazing. It makes me think when you talk about noospheric download, um, This phenomenon fits well this hypothesis of reverse paradigm than the scientific materialism that believes that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain, that this six pounds of gray matter has created mind. The alternative that in the East they believe in forever is that is the reverse.

It’s mind that have created matter. You know, the brain is just a transistor that, you know, regulate the signal, but the signal comes before the transistor. Now, where does it come from? Nobody knows. Some sort of, you know, I don’t know, cosmic intelligence or, you know, cosmic consciousness, which has been there forever.

And if we buy the second hypothesis, which [00:30:00] to me makes much more sense, then there is like this cosmic consciousness, then there is this neospheric download is simply a way to breach. You know, to pierce the matrix and connect with this cosmic consciousness. 

Lucian: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, that’s where I often feel that the game isn’t coming from me, it’s coming through me.

And I think a lot of people relate to that. You know, I, I, I will never call myself the founder of United Planet. I describe myself as the founding curator. Um, and, and because for me, this has been deep, a practice of deep listening of experimentation of what wants to emerge here. How can I listen to these signals that I believe are actually coming from the future.

I could share a little theory I have, if you like, on this. It’s kind cool. Um, so Every, every action creates an equal [00:31:00] reaction. Um, so every action that has ever taken place throughout space time creates, if you like, a ripple, like a signal, like a sound wave. And obviously some actions have bigger consequences, therefore create bigger ripples.

Like, think of it as a sound, you know, a louder, a louder noise. will create a bigger wave or 

Giancarlo: a bigger stone in the 

Lucian: lake, exactly like a bigger stone in the lake or a meteorite hitting the lake, you know, that’s going to create a huge ripple that might actually affect all life on earth. Um, so I believe that, uh, everything that has ever taken place throughout time from the beginning of time to the end of time, uh, if there is such a thing as that beginning and ending and has created a, uh, ripple and now.

What we are doing and what our intuitions are. are like honing beacons, listening to ripples reaching back in time from the future to pay, to give ourselves guidance on where to pay attention. [00:32:00] Because those ripples that happen aren’t bound by time in the same way as our lives are. So the actions we take in this lifetime can actually inform Um, back in time so that we can be pre we can be aware and listening to the actions of our future self.

And I believe that’s how our intuition is like ho like guiding us to make good decisions in the moment. And um, And so the, the up game is very much a practice of that. It’s about listening to the future. It’s about meeting and developing a relationship with your future self and listening to what wants to emerge through you and how you can be a vessel for those stories, for those strategies, for those solutions to, to come into form and then allow that future to be reverse engineered into the present.

Giancarlo: Amazing. So there’s a [00:33:00] lot to unpack. So, but let’s go back maybe to the chronology. So you were in Davos 2019, you realized that this game was extremely successful and people resonate, leaders would enjoy doing it. They, everybody. So you realize the potential and then what happened? 

Lucian: So 2019, so then I created Savannah House, this prototype planetary embassy, and then, um, that was.

being very successful and, um, then COVID happened. And at the time I was about to organize with a few friends, uh, this gathering in Esalen, the, the, the, the home of the human potential movement in Big Sur, California, I was going to be curating this group of 40 system change, uh, athletes, societal transformers, uh, um, and on right before.

Uh, the lockdown, it got cancelled, [00:34:00] um, two days before it was beginning to, it was starting on March 15th. And so this friend of mine was like, Lucien, can you come up with something? And I’d been thinking of this for a while of, uh, to replace the, to replace this gathering that was happening in Esalen. And so I’d been thinking of the game for a while as a as a way of bringing together, uh, uh, leaders that such as what were coming to Esalen.

And so I was like, yeah, I’ve got this experiment. And so we did the first game back as an as a alternative to gathering in Esalen. And we brought together these 40 people for this kind of like sprint meets a, uh, sprint meets a retreat. And, and it was very yin and yang and we set up councils and we set up associations and we applied collective intelligence for this week long sprint and the up game was born as a way of [00:35:00] bringing people together.

And so I then ran a lot of different experiments, uh, all obviously it was COVID lockdown. So it was all online. But we started with Sound for Health where we brought 26 of the world’s kind of leading sound, uh, experts and technologists and, um, uh, sound healers together to look at, uh, the power of sound to transform society.

And then, um, we did, uh, community impact and then we did food, uh, and then we went through a number of different topics to start to bring people together to apply their collective intelligence, uh, from the future as to how we solve these systemic challenges. And, and I ended up doing probably experiments with about 2, 000 people.

Uh, over that period of time to develop the, the design of the game, which I can go into now. Um, and, and, and so now we’re really kind of launching the up game [00:36:00] in its full format here this summer. We did the first big prototype of it last summer here in Ibiza where we brought together 48 people, uh, across four teams.

And we, uh, Spent six days in the future together. Already divided by the elements. Yes, so, so the way it works is we create essentially a, it’s an immersive reality game where we time travel outside of time so we can go to any point we want but we live in 2030. But we can go further into the future, and we could just easily go back into history, where we’re able to be at any point in time in the present tense.

And we use that as a storytelling tool to develop narratives and solutions as to how we got that. And so what we do with each game is we bring 48 of the most visionary, uh, entrepreneurial, creative, diverse talent we possibly can [00:37:00] together here to Ibiza. Uh, and we have four teams. There’s the air team, the water team, the fire team, and the earth team.

And then, um, we go on this six day journey that begins with time day, where we ritually step outside of time. Uh, we have an opening ceremony, and we have then a death ceremony, and then it goes into a Temescal, where we step outside of what the Greeks called Kronos, into what the Greeks called Kairos, which Kronos is clock time, and Kairos is all time.

So Kairos includes all of the past, the present moment, and all of the future. Thanks a lot. So think about, if time was a linear, like, line, imagine if you could turn that line on its head, you’d see a single dot. That’s Kairos. So instead of experiencing this moment, this moment, this moment, like clock time, You’re able to experience all time, which is actually the true nature of time.

Uh, we’re experiencing time as a, you know, [00:38:00] in a, in a limited dimensional way. But if we go up a dimension, we can experience any time. And so we can, we, we, we can, we can navigate into a different experience of time. And so that’s where it begins. And then 

Giancarlo: we, but just to add something again for the skeptic, you know, we, I experienced that with psychedelic, I experienced this time as a dot without the chronology, what time it’s.

Just infinite. Infinite, exactly. So, there are places in our consciousness or in our brain altered in a certain way, in non ordinary state, you can explore that. So that’s, we have that in us. And 

Lucian: did that state feel natural to you? 

Giancarlo: Sometimes yes, sometimes no, you know, it’s, it’s a question of getting acquainted with exactly.

It’s, 

Lucian: it’s, it’s like a language. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, there’s a familiarity. And so I spend a lot of my time in Kairos, uh, you [00:39:00] know, I dance with Kairos in non 

Giancarlo: ordinary state. Yeah. And 

Lucian: well, and, and just, I, I’ve developed a deep relationship with Kairos. Um, with time, actually. Like, I’ve become so fascinated by time as a dimension.

And I do believe that, um, you know, put it this way, that society, we’re clearly in a crisis of meaning and a world war on trust. Um, you know, we’re only going to bridge this chasm between left and right, not through coming into the middle, but by through another dimension. And I believe that’s time. I believe space gets way too much air time and I believe if we can go up a level, away from the left right duality polarization, we can go backwards and forwards in time and we can actually connect into the wisdom of our ancestors and use that as a foundation and guide to step further into the future and connect with our future selves and it’s from that place that we can actually be [00:40:00] at our best in the present.

to be architects of that future. It’s in that group flow. And that’s really what we develop with the game. You know, it’s really, it’s all about developing radical hope, deep community, collective catharsis, collective healing and transformation. Developing a unifying narrative and having a huge amount of fun during, during, during the journey.

Because play is what we need. Fun is a very serious thing. Fun is a very, we’re very serious about fun. And it’s a bit like on, you know, LST for example, when you, when, when they’ve When you do the brain scans, your left and right, um, side of your brain is synced. And so that’s what we actually develop as practices without the LSD.

But you can think of an up game as like a collective LSD trip without the LSD, but going for six days. And so, so time day is where we begin. Then the AIR team creates AIR day. 

Giancarlo: For, for our listener, How would you differentiate right brain and left brain? [00:41:00] 

Lucian: In, in, how do we differentiate? Yeah, like 

Giancarlo: the, the, the right brain is more intuitive.

Lucian: Yeah, so, so the right brain is, it’s, it’s, think of that as your like artistic, creative, intuitive. It’s like where, it’s where the, it’s, it’s where you, it’s, it’s your dreaming side of your brain, if you like. It’s your, it’s the place where you will envision things that haven’t been formed before. Cool. Your left brain is much more like rational, um, um, structured, um, it’s very useful for operating in life.

Yeah, yeah. Problem solving, reductive. Exactly. The best we can have is actually, um, this hemisync, uh, that was done. Developed with the Gateway Projects, which is fascinating. Um, but and that’s what we really look to develop as a culture in a ritualized practice using the game. Um, So that’s the state if you like that we bring bring people into but the way we do it is each team is 12 [00:42:00] people.

So we have the AIR team, which represents all life flourishing to our fullest potential. So the AIR team creates a day long immersive experience around things like health and well being, water security, unleashing potential, and sustainable food. So we develop myths. of how those aspects of society have transformed.

And we start with the story, and we co create the story together because our, my belief is that the narrative is the front line. And if we can unify around a narrative, we can reverse engineer that narrative into reality. And there’s nothing more powerful than a story whose time has come. So you can think of us a little bit like we are developing time traveling snipers Going into the future to develop stories to shoot back in time into the present to transform it.

That’s the notion of the game. And I’ll give, I’ll give some examples as I go through this. Yeah, repeat that one more time. We are [00:43:00] time traveling snipers shooting stories from the future back in time into the present. to transform the present into the future we wish to see. So, so the, the air team does that around everything we need for like our own individual flourishing.

Then the water team represents the rise and return to community and, and the commons. And so the water team, we go out on electric catamarans and we create these immersive experiences on the water. And, and that represents community abundance. It represents. Uh, um, the wealthy commons, which is like the planet has an education commons, a health care commons, a food commons, a wellness commons, like even things like pharmaceutical drugs we might need could be developed by the planetary commons, um, as opposed to by for profit companies.

Um, it’s the, the, the, all [00:44:00] aspects of society can be developed in the commons and in a world uh, in the future. And that’s different from communism. Um, we can go into a whole, whole lot on that, but the commons is a very ancient idea that, whose time has come for the future. Um, it’s the notion of the village well, uh, and, and the shared resources.

The common good. Yeah, the common good. Um, and so we have the wealthy commons, and then we have, regenerative cities, and then we have, uh, infrastructure transformation in, in Waterday. So it’s everything around how do we do, like, how do we transform and empower communities. And then we go, that’s what 

Giancarlo: the water and so on that day, experts on all this, um, theme you mentioned would then talk as if that happened.

And they just described after we’re already 

Lucian: described. And it’s, it’s more, it’s like experiential. So there’s, there’s, there’s breath work, there’s music, there’s jam. Most of an up game is happening kind of in music, in melody. So we’re, we’re, we’re bringing [00:45:00] the. best of each other out through these teams.

And so the team of 12 that is the day’s host, the water team, are taking the other 36 people through an experience of their vision of the future as it relates to the rise of community in the commons. And so that’s that, that’s water day. And then we go into fire day, which fire day and the fire team represents, uh, societal, cultural and economic transformation.

So there we have things like, um, um, gender harmony, peace and justice, thriving for all, and, uh, and circular economies. So I’ll give you an example of, of, of peace and justice. So we’ve developed this story where we’re inviting Pussy Riot to come to the game, to film a music video as part of the films we’re making, which I’ll go more into.

Yeah, Pussy Riot is a woman activist movement. Exactly. In, in, in Russia, we’re saying, well, how do we tell the story of the failure of the Russian nation state and the rise of the [00:46:00] Russian planetary nation? And so what we’re architecting is a story of a feminine uprising in Russia that quite literally drove and financed The transformation of an entirely new governance system that transforms this current model, which isn’t democratic, uh, into one that, that can be truly representative of the views of, of all Gaian people, um, in, in, in that region.

And so these are like stories that. are not the level that we’re thinking about when we’re thinking about the Russia Ukraine crisis in 2022. We’re not thinking about how do we actually architect the story that gets us out of this mess, that gets us out of this gridlock, this power struggle that we’re currently in.

And so that’s the kind of thing we do with the up game. And so that’s just an example there. And then the Earth team on Thursday, Thursday is the Earth Day. And so the Earth team is, represents, um, the planet and the planetary age and living within [00:47:00] planetary boundaries. So there we create mythologies around planetary health, around ocean stewardship, around ubiquitous energy, and around land stewardship.

So each day has got a particular set of mythologies, 16 across the four, four teams that we develop stories around. And each one of those. Stories becomes an hour long immersive experience that we film in VR for the Metaverse so that we’re creating this summer 64 hours of immersive Metaverse experience for the United Planet Metaverse.

And we film four movies, so each game becomes a film, like an episode of 48 people’s collective vision of a, of a thriving civilization. And so each film is this super inspiring, almost like if where we’ve been conquered by dystopia out there with stories like Black Mirror and Squid Games and Hunger Games and all of the dystopia that we see in society, we are like the opposite.

So this is like a white mirror and we’re [00:48:00] seeding radical hope and we’re showcasing some of the best of societal transformations and solutions that are able to lead us into this next version of ourselves where we really all rise to the occasion and we rise to the planet’s finest hour. 

And 

Lucian: so that’s, uh, Earth Day and then we finish, the final day is on Friday and we finish with Ether Day.

And that’s where each team creates a unifying narrative of their experiences of the week. And um, where, where we weave together all of the stories, all of the Gaian tradition, the stories we remember that we’ll, we’ll, we’ll take home with us. And then we do what we call the Twice Born Initiation, where we give each player, each Gaian.

The, um, the, the, the honor. of birthing themselves back into time with everything that they’ve taken from their six days of a [00:49:00] time outside of time. And so it’s really powerful. People come back and they, they, they describe the experiences as, as, as one of the most transformative. impactful experiences of their lives.

And so it’s like a worldview wash. It’s like taking a shower of your view of like, how you can be hopeful about the future and how we can feel that like, this isn’t a um, necessarily a dystopian future. That so many of us have been conquered by that story. That the, that the, The, the, the future is looking very bleak, um, and, and, you know, as long as we’re telling that story, we’re going to end up creating that story because it’s a lot, lot easier for us to end up in dystopia than it is protopia.

And it’s like we actually have to be very, very active in architecting for a thriving for all society if, if we’re gonna, if, if, if, if we’re gonna, uh, be able to, um, achieve that. Which I believe, I have childlike faith that we’ve already done it. And I really developed that relationship [00:50:00] with my future self that I know that we live in a united planet.

I know that we’ve been successful. And it’s from that deep state of, of, of like, believing in the best possible narrative, the best possible timeline that I recognize that is a strategic choice of how I can show up in my position as a curator of storytellers, storying a thriving future in harmony with all life.

Giancarlo: Beautiful, beautiful. It seems like, um, like a mind expanding experience, like a psychedelic experience. It’s, it’s, it’s, it is the best 

Lucian: comparison would be a psychedelic experience. But so 

Giancarlo: my, my question is like, like for psychedelic experience, like all peak experience, you have this deep understanding that a better future is possible.

We have them in our heart, but then What is [00:51:00] the integration and the application of this feeling with these 12 people? What is the follow up? So the follow 

Lucian: up. So we, there’s quite a number. So once you’ve been initiated as a guy and you’re part of this growing community that we’re establishing, and we did something very interesting back in, um, uh, back at the beginning of COVID, uh, I organized on Earth Day on the 50th anniversary of Earth Day, Um, April 22nd, 2020, uh, along with everyone I was living with at Sabana House, we organized the launch of the United Planet, and we did this festival that 40, 000 people came and streamed what we were doing, and during a lunch, uh, where we had people like Charles Eisenstein and amazing leaders, um, come together for that lunch set in 2030, uh, I did something that I describe as time farming, where I drop what in the game we call dragon eggs.

And a dragon egg is like a fractal truth. It’s like a timeless truth. It’s a truth [00:52:00] that will always be true. It’s true today or it has been true and always will be true, which is like the foundations of what we’re designing society on. Because if we can design, design our world based on truths, we’re, we’re going to make some good progress.

And so I, I, I launched what I sometimes jokingly call the mother of all DragonX, which is the, the transformation of money. And the way we did that is we pegged one star, which is the currency of the up game, uh, and the currency of the United Planets, like think of it as money of the future. One star to 1 on January the 1st, 2020.

So on that day, so it’s, it’s a permanent peg on that day. And so what we do is we track as Uncle Sam, you know, as the Fed, uh, the Federal Reserve, prints more money, the exchange rate from dollars to stars keeps going up. Because as there’s more dollars in [00:53:00] supply, the exchange rate is based on the total supply of dollars on, on that day.

on January the 1st, 2020, which was, uh, 15 point, 15. 7 trillion. Now there’s over 21 trillion, uh, dollars in supply because Uncle Sam has got this kind of economic crack addiction called quantitative easing and is printing money like there’s no tomorrow. And so now the exchange rate from one dollar to one star in, you know, on, on solstice 2022, 2022.

is now 1. 41 to one star. That’s only two years, 1. 41 rather than 1. In two years, that’s how many extra dollars have been printed. And so what we’re doing is we’ve designed this, um, we’ve designed this kind of massive experiment to go and say, what if we could turn money from going from the present moment towards the future into coming from the future, pulling the present towards it.

And so the way we do [00:54:00] that is we’ve, we’re developing this kind of child between social impact bonds and smart contracts with time. And we call them star bonds. And what we’re developing is the ability for investors to go and put capital behind outcome based milestones on our planetary journey. And this is where the six trillion comes in.

So our goal is to say, what if we could reverse engineer from the future? What if instead of funding incremental improvements from the present towards the future, we could do it the other way around, and we could start to put ecosystemic financing only pays for cooperation. It doesn’t pay for people to compete.

Um, and, and we could enable that financing to achieve these milestones along the way that teams develop through the games. So we start with the narrative from the game. And then from the narrative, we reverse engineer the strategies as to [00:55:00] how we got there. And from those strategies, we design the milestones as to how to achieve those strategies.

And from those milestones, we raise capital to incentivize the teams working on those strategies to go and deliver on them. And the whole idea here is the future isn’t something to predict, it’s something to achieve. And if we can turn the way we think about money, and we can align pension funds, and we can align, um, All of this emerging impact capital to say what if we were to take 10 percent of the cost we’ve said it’s going to cost to achieve the SDGs this decade.

It’s predicted to cost 60 trillion dollars. What if we could take 10% 

Giancarlo: SDGs is 

Lucian: the Sustainable Development Goals. The Sustainable Development Goals, the global goals. Basically the, the, the goals that, uh, will make life worth living. in 2030. Like, they’re very, very important for planetary thriving, but we need to go beyond them because at the end of the day, uh, the [00:56:00] SDGs are limited in their, um, their, their, their, their limited in their scope.

What are they roughly? Uh, those are the 16 goals. So, the, the 16 topics that I described, uh, are, um, The SDGs, but instead of being how we, instead of being things like zero hunger, we call it sustainable food. Instead of being reduced inequalities, we call it thriving for all. Instead of it being climate action, we call it planetary health.

So we talk about the SDGs as if we’ve already achieved them. 

Giancarlo: The H. O. has these SDGs also. 

Lucian: The U. N. The U. N., yeah. The U. N. and many global organizations, you know, have committed to the delivery of the SDGs. So, our hypothesis, which is perhaps the biggest, um, economic hypothesis, uh, in terms of amount of capital any organization has put together, um, is that if we could take 10 percent of the [00:57:00] cost of that.

and put it into these future bonds, these, these star bonds that could incentivize ecosystems to collaborate together. Our hypothesis is we could outperform the spending of the other 90 percent, that we can do for one tenth of the cost, we could run circles around our current way of funding innovation.

And that’s a hypothesis that we wish to prove. And so that’s why we’re saying, look. The goal of United Planet in, in, in the 2020s, in the golden decade, the decade of transformation, is to transition six trillion dollars from the old model of financing into this new model of financing ecosystemic transformation.

And so we’re obviously at the very, very, very, very beginning of that. But it’s a big audacious goal and we need big audacious goals right now. And so it’s the largest financing goal any, any organization set about on. And but I do believe it’s possible because I [00:58:00] believe we need a new story and we need to recognize that we have been conquered by a story that is not.

The story of separation. The story of separation and, and yeah. 

Giancarlo: But so what would you be, what would you think is an ideal candidate to start, you know, to be a financier? So it would be like, you mentioned a pension fund or institutional investment or impact fund. So let’s pick an imaginary entity that would be the funder.

So you would go to them. So, just to, just to, to, to have a, to understand practically how that would work. So, let’s say that an impact fund has, um, 100 billion under management. Yeah. So, you would ask them To commit 10 percent of their funding to Starbonds. So, that would be 1 billion. Exactly. 

Lucian: And, and so, how does it work?

They So we would then ask them to set up an experiment around the measures of impact to say if you have 10 [00:59:00] percent of your portfolio allocated into start bonds, what we would like to work with you is to show that the impact you can have from that is 10%. 10 percent that 1 billion in this case will outperform the impact of the rest of your portfolio.

Giancarlo: But so the star bonds is a, is a blockchain contract. 

Lucian: It’s a, it’s a, it’s a blockchain contract paying for a particular outcome, paying for an outcome based milestone. But 

Giancarlo: why you call it bond and not equity? 

Lucian: Uh, because it’s functions like a bond. But so the capital is protected. The capital sits in, in, in, in that bond that only gets released once we achieve that outcome.

And so then finance, people can finance the working capital needed between the, Uh, achievement of the outcome to get to the next outcome. 

Giancarlo: So the one billion is secured. Yeah. And so the interest on one billion can be spent. 

Lucian: On, it can be spent getting us towards that. 

Giancarlo: Yes. 

Lucian: Uh, and, and investors [01:00:00] that want to be able to, uh, invest in achieving that.

Whatever the vision is that whatever the let’s just say that one billion is tied to sustainable food And we want to go and say okay This is the this is the milestones because we need to be to transform from a failed Agricultural system because we simply don’t have harvests in the future. You know, we’re We’re quite literally raping our mother right now.

And so it’s not a it’s not a matter of like Do we do this? It’s essential Yeah. But so 

Giancarlo: just for the technicalities, you know, this 1 billion, the capital is protected. We can, we can play with the interest. Let’s call it 4 percent a year. So we have 40 million that we can use. So we tell the impact investor, you give us 1 billion, you lose the interest.

We collect the interest that the treasury give us. I mean, where does, where does 4 percent comes from? The bank? You said the 4%. So 

Lucian: from an [01:01:00] interest perspective, so how the, how the smart bonds are described, how the smart bonds are organized is totally dependent on what is the current interest rate, but also what is the, um, uh, what, what is the goal we’re talking about?

So different goals will have different. size treasuries, if you like. So in, in the up game we have, we created something that it’s, it’s, it’s very, it’s like really at the seed architectures, the drawing board stage. But we have the world bank right now, which has been really largely corrupted by the interests of nation states, which are not, not aligned with the interests of the planet.

So the question is how They’re not Gaia and Cygnus. yet. They’re not Gaians yet. Mostly. So the question is how do we create a decentralized planetary bank that can finance a thriving future in harmony with all that? And so this is how the stars as a currency that we’re [01:02:00] thinking about, how do we incentivize this?

the, the transformation necessary for each one of these goals. And so what we’ve done is we’ve created a DAO, a Decentralized Autonomous Organization called the United Planet, that has then multiple other DAOs. It has the Earth, it has the Earth League, the, the Fire League, the Water League, and the Air League, and each one of those has a treasury with each of the goals able to raise capital.

And so then it becomes up to the team to go and say, Okay, here’s the milestones that we need to hit, and here’s how much we think it’s going to cost to hit that milestone. And then the DAO can use, can go and raise capital through all of the players that participate in the game and all of the spectators that come in and watch those players participate because the notion is that this, we can reach a billion people playing the game by 2030.

Is, is our goal. So, [01:03:00] the, the, the, the, um, division here is that Um, that anybody that wishes to participate in the transformation of their own community can use the mechanism of stars as a way to raise capital to fund those transformations. That’s what we’re working towards. But it’s very early days and this is like a kind of, uh, you know, it’s like an architectural blueprint of how do we finance transformation in a non competitive way.

Giancarlo: So let’s make a deal. Uh, let’s allocate another hour. For the DAO, the star bond, the blockchain, the capital protection, who pays the 4%? Because the 4 percent is the price of money today, roughly, in dollar. Interest rates are going down, up and down. 

Lucian: But we’ve got an interesting thing there with stars that Every day the value of stars is going up to the dollar.

So we, the value of stars goes up based on how many dollars are in supply. So it’s, it’s, it’s actually a [01:04:00] stable store of value with no nation state, no corporation. There’s no, exactly, there’s no, you can, not like the Bitcoin. Exactly. So for example, if, if Uncle Sam continues to print money at the same pace that’s been printed for the last two years, the exchange rate of one Star to one, uh, to a dollar.

We’ll, we’ll go down will be $3 36 by 2030. And that’s only based on the supply of dollars of, of the current patterns of quantitative easing. Yeah. Now, if we, if we also expand it, there is going to be a crisis of confidence in fiat currencies because governments all around the world are printing money at the expense of future generations.

That crisis of confidence, we are designing essentially a. Um, a transition of capital from the present system into the next using stars. It’s kind of like a economic, I can geek out here, an economic to write a field, a perpetual [01:05:00] Akito move on extractive capitalism so that we can continuously bring more capital into a regenerative planetary society.

Giancarlo: Yeah. I mean, when we talk about money and financing. I’m a little bit harder because I have more conditioning because of my 10 years in investment banking. So, um, you know, when we talk about esoteric stuff, I feel I’m much more free mentally. But when we talk about, you know, value of money today, value of money in the future, you know, the 1 billion from the impact investor fund will stay in dollar.

If it doesn’t stays in dollar. It takes the devaluation of money. You know, there is a lot of things that my financial mind wants to explore. 

Lucian: This is why you should come and join the design team of Starz. Yes, for sure. 

Giancarlo: With pleasure. And then I have friends even more technical that have been, that have learned.

That have been more involved with the co, with the cryptocurrencies. Yeah. But I would like to invite the, [01:06:00] the listener to just hold on into the Dao and the star. I want to do another full hour with, um, beautiful. To, to, to, to try to explore that. Um, we passed the hour already, but there is something else I want to talk to you because it is a theme that is very dear to Mango.

To the, to the, to our follower is this idea of building community and living in community and, um, cure. The concept of the app game and the four elements is almost a magical, synchronistically fit with the Damanhur community. So I think I would like to do a third episode on that. But just to leave us, um, at least with a little bit of a taste on, on, on, on how app game and Damanhur work together.

And then maybe we can announce a screening of the movie. Yeah. Time ritual. 

Lucian: Yeah. So Damanhur is an amazing intentional community that was started in the seventies by this remarkable kind of time traveling [01:07:00] alchemist called Falco. Uh, and they created, uh, the world’s largest underground temple. It’s, it’s, it’s often referred to as the eighth wonder of the world.

And the temple is, they’re incredible. People say that it’s like, you know, take your breath away. It’s totally breathtaking. And, and, and, and we, we had the opportunity to film inside the temples and to film a game where we stepped outside of time and we told the story of Damanhur and the story of United Planet and created myths around all of the elements, um, in, in this movie, Time Ritual.

And, and it’s, it’s, it’s my first movie that I co directed and produced, um, but I often joke it’s not because it was filmed outside of time. Um, but, but basically, yeah, Dam and her believe that we’re currently on a timeline that leads to extinction and it leads to destruction. Like your father. Yeah, yeah, that we, we lose the, the divine spark and we go into a kind of primitive time.

It’s a bit, it’s a bit like Einstein said, Einstein said, [01:08:00] I, you know, I don’t know about World War III, but I know World War IV will be sort of sticks, fought with sticks and stones, you know. It’s a great, great description. Um, and, uh, Uh, you know, Damanhur believed that we actually can change the timelines.

And so they created this temple as a, a kind of a guiding beacon, um, to channel that information, to channel that wisdom, that guidance, to quite literally change the timeline. And, and that’s what we, um, that’s what we showcase in the movie. And yeah, we’ll, we’ll dive more into that. 

Giancarlo: Fantastic. Listen, you know, I, it has been an incredible pleasure to know you and having you here and your enthusiasm is contagious and you’ve clearly done so much work around this visualization for the future, the way it is articulating the details.

And um, so yeah, as I said, we’d love to do two more episodes. And, um, thank you so much for coming. Is there anything else you want to leave us, our listener? [01:09:00] You know, sometimes I would like to leave our listener with some practical application. Maybe I see you’re collecting, um, registration on the website.

Lucian: Yeah, you can go to up, up. game and apply that. So you can 

Giancarlo: participate in this game? You can 

Lucian: participate. You can apply to participate. It has a, it has a 

Giancarlo: cost. 

Lucian: It has a, depending. So we, six people on the team pay, um, three people on the team are on the academy. Um, and, and it’s half, half the cost. And then three people are on full scholarship.

But we’re raising sponsorship from other organizations so that we can ultimately in the future, people that are playing the game, we think of as like athletes of systems change and they shouldn’t need to pay themselves, but we’re just building up towards that. 

Giancarlo: Beautiful. But so what do you think should be the The, um, the, the, the skills or the personality threat for people to participate?

Lucian: I mean, so we’ve got quite a, it totally depends. So the six [01:10:00] people are, um, systemic transformation leaders that are at the, they’ve got a long track record of commitment and they. experts in the field relating to one of the 16 topics. Okay, so experts? Um, then we have a number of archetypal roles. So every team has a, uh, an elder is, is the goal.

Every team has an experienced designer. Every team has a musician. Every team has a filmmaker, actress, actor. Every team has a, um, Uh, a historian, um, every team, we’re, we’re looking at, uh, scholarships around, like, civic veterans, uh, around teachers, around, like, trying to really bring as much diversity of perspective into these, like, how would we design systems change as a sport?

How would we design these, like, you know, on a football team, you don’t want everybody to be a goalie. You don’t want everybody to be a striker. You want these diverse teams. And so that’s part of the experiment we’re doing now is what is the optimal team of 12 [01:11:00] people to spend six days outside of time together to design that future in harmony with all life.

Giancarlo: Amazing. And anyway, all this is explained on the website and we’ll, we’ll put everything on the show note. so much Lucia for coming. Ciao. Ciao everybody. Thank you.