48: Eliane Gerzelj on Relearning Intimacy & Ritualising Sexual Encounters

Spicy Spirit
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NLP Coaching
Enneagram of Personality
Integral Transpersonal Psychology
Neo-Tantra
ISTA
Orisha
Natal Astrology
Vision Quest
Intermittent fasting
Jorge Ferrer
Shibari
Graham Hancock
Benjamin De Loenen
Shipibo
Transpersonal Somatics retreat

Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello, hi, welcome to this new episode of the Mango TV podcast. Today we have Elian Gerzelcz. Italian born and former civil engineer by Polytechnic of Milano, she underwent a transformative journey from globe trotting and burnout to a spiritual epiphany in Brazil at 26. Settling in Barcelona in 2019, she mastered NLP coaching, progressed to level two of the Anya Graham of personality program and pursued a three year integral transpersonal psychology masters following a painful [00:01:00] breakup.

A year of celibacy steered her towards exploring new tantra, somatic sexuality, and embodied spirituality, refining her own approach to intimacy. She just completed level two of the international school of temple art as the founder of spicy spirit She aids other in relearning self and interpersonal intimacy through transpersonal psychology and sexuality insights She now lives in Ibiza and offers private sessions workshop and retreats in Spain and Italy She truly she truly believes that consciousness is sexy.

Welcome Eliane 

Eliane: Thank you Giancarlo. 

Giancarlo: So as we usually do, we try to keep this format quite standard. You know, at Mango TV, we are interested in personal transformation. We are fascinated by this idea that the brain has neuroplasticity. We can change, we can rewire our brain. So why don’t we start, you know, we’re going to follow classical structure of past, present, future.

[00:02:00] So tell us a little bit more in detail how, how, how you come about having this transformation and what are the cathartic moment where you felt that, you know, you were like shedding an old skin and embracing something new. 

Eliane: Okay. So I would definitely start with the Because it was for me the place, the country, the space and time where I could finally I would first actually realize that the path I was walking on wasn’t really the one I was meant to be.

Yeah, I was at Politecnico of Milan studying civil engineering, aiming at the most important grade there and convinced that building the longest bridge in the world would lead me to happiness. And I was very close to that, but eventually I did Where, 

Giancarlo: where, which, where? In Sicily? No. 

Eliane: Where? Oh, that was maybe not the longest, but the hardest.[00:03:00] 

Yeah, definitely. But no, the idea was going first to Brazil and then finalizing my at Politecnico. So, in this year in Brazil, I got in contact with a completely different culture, and I realized that most of my ideas about happiness and success were wrong. It was really realizing that through the contact with nature me as a human being, I was just so little and no matter how much concrete I could put in a place, but nothing could stop nature from its cycle.

And there I started like leaving the space for this new New, new birth of my real essence that I don’t know if it’s already all there flourishing, but it was the first seed. I was walking along this beautiful beach and there was no bridge to get to the other side of the river. We had to wait for the low tide.

And so I couldn’t just [00:04:00] manage the thing how I wanted. And that really made me really realize that, okay, there is a pause to take here and rethink about the future. 

Giancarlo: Maybe building a bridge is not that important after all. No, definitely no. And then? 

Eliane: So, then, after this year Brazil, I went back to Milan. I finalized, of course, my master’s degree.

But the only thing was I really needed to go back there, to that country where I could first experience this new me. And so I made everything. Possible to go back there, and I gathered a group of wine producers, and I brought wine, Italian wine to Brazil, which was one of the things I really missed while I was living there, and I started this project of importation and reselling the, the wines there, pausing for a while engineering because of [00:05:00] course I was just freshly graduated.

And yeah, I thought maybe to give a chance to something different and, and there with a less structured routine working with more in connection with the senses, I, I A similar course also. So I was really into feeling everything that was around me. And through that I, I give the, the, the space to a spiritual to, to, to this spiritual 

Giancarlo: aspect of life.

Yeah, 

Eliane: exactly. In Brazil, they’re very connected to the body, to nature and to all these spirits that are all around. They call them the orishas. There is the orisha of the salty waters like Yemanja. There is an orisha for, for the earth. And so everything around around Brazil can be sacred. And so being immersed in this environment really gave me a [00:06:00] taste of what sacredness could be and how important it is to cultivate spirituality on a daily basis.

Giancarlo: And and and how this new realization affected your life, or how did it challenge pre existing structure that you had on how to be, how to behave versus yourself versus the others? 

Eliane: Well, first of all, being so far away from my home country, from my family, helped a lot because all my beliefs were raised by a culture, yeah, it was a cultural 

Giancarlo: conditioning.

Eliane: Exactly. So being so far away helped me to first cultivate this seed and realizing that this idea I had about happiness and success in life. wasn’t really connected with something more deep and, and more spiritual was just an idea coming from, from the outside world, from probably the Western progress towards an infinite possibility of development and, and, and [00:07:00] growth and, and being there really helped me to.

pick the people I would share my time with. I would learn from I’ve been living for three months with a medium, for example, and she really opened my mind towards this more subtle world where spirits are present, where you can work with the, this. subtle dimension of, of, of the beings.

And then I participated to some Candomblé ceremonies, really being able to feel the energy of the spiritual in, in, on Earth. And through these dances they, they, and the, and the, and the drums, they literally leave you, lead you to a trance. And I was there like a, as a visitor, so just witnessing not even dancing a lot, but I could really feel the rays of the energy and the frequency.

And I got in a little bit of a [00:08:00] trance state. 

Giancarlo: This is an African influence. Yes, 

Eliane: yes, yes. Mainly located in Bahia, but it’s spread. all around Brazil. 

Giancarlo: And so before, when you were in the Politecnico, it was you were 

Eliane: raised catholic, not catholic, but my family was Adventist, which is more towards the protestant side of the religion.

So 

Giancarlo: you already had some sort of like believe in in in spirit. And you had already, you were not considered like a secular materialistic. 

Eliane: No, no. But at the same time my idea of religion was so organized, organized and very like Jesus centered. Yeah. And Yeah, it wasn’t really open to all this world of subtle, like the medium shape, 

Giancarlo: the golden blue.

Eliane: Exactly. 

Giancarlo: Beautiful. And then, 

Eliane: and then what happened? I spent two [00:09:00] years now in Brazil. Cultivating this new me, getting to know how this new Eliane wanted to behave. I could really engage in different types of relationships like letting go the patterns I didn’t really like about me when I was living in Italy, in my hometown or even in Milan.

Because it’s the same culture pot. So it was hard for me to just step out and take a pose. So after these two years and a half in Brazil I experienced a lot of what it means to stay in the body, to really listen to it. And I experienced the catharsis, the collective catharsis of the carnival twice, and that was very powerful.

Probably at that moment, I wasn’t really aware of what I was witnessing and experiencing. But today I can definitely say that it’s a spiritual collective catharsis, what the carnival [00:10:00] is in Brazil. It’s like a collective movement of people celebrating deeply life in its own way. Essence and doesn’t matter the shape of the form.

It’s done, but it’s really a deep connection with with the life force. And why don’t we? Why shouldn’t we celebrate it? You know? In 

Giancarlo: Rio, 

Eliane: in Rio and then in Recife, where there is this little town, Olinda on the hill, which is another characteristic carnival there. 

Giancarlo: Collective catharsis makes me believe it makes me reminds me a little bit of Burning Man.

Eliane: Mm. Yeah. 

Giancarlo: Which I feel that, there are, there are some when you have like 50, 000 people with the purest intention celebrating in that way, I really feel that there is some sort of energetic highways that get built up and, and, and even people can possibly even tap into this energy, energetic highways and.

and manipulated [00:11:00] reality and meet people they need to meet and 

Eliane: exactly. Yeah. And it’s not the death that you’re describing. And it’s also reverting all the normal rules. I mean, during carnival in Brazil, the streets are taken by People walking, so no cars, no, no traffic. It’s just people is regaining our place as human beings, even in a built environment and doing it in Rio, for example, where nature is like on your side.

I mean, nature there is really present in between skyscraper and the other. So it It’s a reminder, a strong reminder, from when we belong, and so why don’t we just celebrate there? And it’s like when you meditate alone, or you meditate in a group, if you do it collectively, like, the frequency that, and the feel that can be generated is Definitely stronger and yeah, 

Giancarlo: people underestimate the power of the [00:12:00] neural co regulation with other especially with family and partner, you know, even in movies when I was doing was producing documentary and when you screen a movie and you watch it alone is one experience, but whenever there’s other people in the room.

Inevitably, you can see a little bit of the movie through their eyes. 

Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 

Giancarlo: It’s interesting. Okay. So, where are we now? Are you still importing wine? No. 

Eliane: When I I came back to Italy I didn’t need to import wines. I mean Brazilian wines are not so, Bad? Not so bad, but I wouldn’t buy them in having all the Italian, once available.

So actually going back to Italy, I, I had the, the, the feeling I had to give a try to engineering because actually I’ve never really worked or practiced as an engineer just in between the, the the graduation and the master. So I went back to Italy. And I went back to my family. [00:13:00] I basically obligated my mother to have me at home for six months, and she really remembers those those six months.

And I do also, because of course, there was something I had to fix there to repair to reconnect. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, like a closure. 

Eliane: Yeah, closure and a new opening. Yeah, for sure. I feel that was the start of a new connection with my mother. Which was one of the reasons probably that led me to go so far away.

And, and so, yeah, I worked in the import export field, but more as a consultant in Italy and then in Barcelona. There in Barcelona it was 2018, and I went there to settle again my life and I was working for this consultancy firm. They sent me to the civil engineering department, so I said, Oh yeah, maybe this time it will work.

But it was like eight months of. Hell. [00:14:00] Hell. Definitely hell. I was working more than 14, 16 hours a day in eight months that’s lasted there. I never had dinner at home. So basically it was just working and working and all the people around me were saying, Yeah, this is what you need to get your promotion.

This is what you need to be successful. You will survive. No problem. Just be strong. And I felt this big contradiction. between what I was just learning that was good for me and what society and the people around me in that moment were telling me. So I got into this inner conflict about what’s right for me, you know?

Was just a bad, a big trip that I had in Brazil, just a parenthesis, and then real life is like this, like working person, money, and not even time for like a relationship, actually. And so these eight months were like, Super, super challenging and eventually when I could gather [00:15:00] a few money, I just quit and I went back to Brazil, my recharging of energy and batteries and there in one year and a month and a half, I I could reconnect with my essence.

I realized that yeah, what I was really needing wasn’t the type of work, wasn’t that it would lead me to success, to happiness, and I received my first reading of Natal Chart. And that was a big awakening because knowing that, I mean, meeting someone who could know myself better than me just reading something taken from the sky, I mean, it’s like quite awkward for someone who doesn’t really believe in astrology at that time.

And so that made me, okay, so but astrology, what is it’s the cosmos as a wall, it’s paying attention to what the planets are doing and how are affecting us. So I’m part of [00:16:00] all this big, big system. And Again, it brought me to something higher, to something more subtle than just the thing to do every day, the food to buy, or the material objects that I would surround myself.

And so following a bit what that astrology told me when I went back to Barcelona, I started a course in coaching because I really wanted to be more able to reach my goals since I had more clarity around them. And during the course, I was really missing the spiritual side of it. I mean, it was all on the surfaces, was very effective for practical things, but when it gets to deeper wounds, I mean, I couldn’t really feel that that was my path.

And this is where transpersonal psychology I mean, came in exactly. 

Giancarlo: So maybe spend a couple of minutes explaining what is [00:17:00] transpersonal psychology is very popular now is mentioned all around because of the renaissance of psychedelics. But tell us a little bit about transpersonal psychology.

Eliane: Transpersonal psychology is a branch of psychology. I started developed in, in the late sixties mainly in California. There was Aslan, this big 

Giancarlo: retreat place, 

Eliane: retreat place. And really gathering. Space where people from all around the world could go there and experience something which was beyond the person.

And this is transpersonal. It’s going beyond what’s the, the, the personality, the ego, the biography, the biography. But at the same time, trans means. true. So we really have to integrate all these things through our biography, through our ego, through our body, because otherwise we can just be super spiritual, but without any root.

Yes. And in [00:18:00] our life. here on earth. I truly believe that we have to use all our human side to heal and then yes, continue in our path. Yes. So, so, yeah. And in this how do we work to develop this sensitivity, the sensibility to, towards the spiritual? Side of, of, of the being there are a lot of techniques, there is breath work, there are plant medicines, there is vision quest there’s plenty of ways and most of the time.

Fasting, trance dance. Exactly. Meditation. And, and the most challenging thing is to get this material, this precious information from our unconscious and bring it to the conscious. Really put it into the light and integrate it in our lives. And so in this three year master that eventually became a four year master because of COVID, we had to stop it at some [00:19:00] point.

And so it just made the journey, the personal journey I’ve been through like longer. And at the same time, I feel very, very lucky to have had this, longest longer exposure to these practices, to the wisdom of all the teachers I had during this, this path. And so today I really feel that integrating the spiritual in the, in the real life is, is something super important.

Giancarlo: And so how do we, at which moment you saw you find your path? You say, okay, this is where I want to focus now in my career. When was the moment and what was the thing? 

Eliane: So while I was in the, in the master I was still working as a consultant in a different company way more flexible where my personal growth was really put in value.

And the only thing was the [00:20:00] topic of the project that was working in was working mainly for big companies in the telecommunication area, which could be fascinated at the beginning. But then I really felt I’m helping the big to become bigger and bigger. And what I really what really nourished me nourishes me is the one to one contact.

How can I me. help you change your life and not make someone make more money. Of course. And so it was a bit longer journey cause I was quite comfortable in this, in this work. I could work from, from Ibiza when I moved here after the first lockdown. And yeah, I, On paper, I had everything I needed a good salary.

I mean, the stability of being employed and everything was there to just keep me in the matrix. But at the same time, living here in Ibiza surrounded by people who were Apparently, in [00:21:00] some, in some proportion, also truly posting their real purpose was constantly challenging me. I was comparing myself to them and say, yeah, I mean, I really love what you do.

I feel how you’re passionate about it. And when I was talking about my work, I was just very rational saying, yeah, it’s a good job, but really not coming from the heart. 

Giancarlo: So what kind of people were you talking about? Like a coach, a psychotherapist energy worker? 

Eliane: Yes. Also massages, masseurs. Yeah. Or, or people that were really putting in service their talent, their gift.

And here on the island, it’s, it’s full of, of them, not only healers, but also more grounded people that are artisan and farmers, really in contact with with with a purpose in life. And so it happened last year that luckily I have to say they fired me. And that was the moment in which I could really say, okay, now it’s [00:22:00] the time to dedicate myself to something that really holds me.

And it, it was already three years, almost three years at that time that I was into the field of intimacy exploring what intimacy for me was meaning and how could I transform it? I realized that my way of living intimacy wasn’t so truthful, was really conditioned, and I wanted to work on it.

It started with a curiosity about sexual exploration, participating to a play party and see all the possibilities that can, can, can 

Giancarlo: arise, can 

Eliane: arise in a, in a safe space of exploration. But yeah, probably the healing part of it was, was most calling me. And, and so if I go back to, [00:23:00] to, to that moment it was this.

Opening to the exploration an amazing play party in Barcelona, and then lockdown. So basically, the castration of all the contacts, of all pleasures, and, and that was very challenging. I luckily had a lover at that time who had like a caravan, so he could park in my apartment and we could still meet. But yes, when I moved to Ibiza, it was very clear to me that I mean, the people I was attracting they had some kind of different patterns in when it gets to intimacy.

Some of them were undergoing a celibacy. Some of them were in practicing penetration 

Giancarlo: and I was not not practicing. 

Eliane: And I was asking myself, why do I attract these people if what I’m looking for is exploration and openness? So basically I, I took a reflection and said, okay, maybe there is a message for me here.

[00:24:00] And I took the opportunity of the winter to start like intermittent fasting, meditating every morning, one hour doing a super healthy routine. And. And yeah, and close my body, close my temple to the interaction with, with others. And it continued for almost one year in which I was slowly opening myself to, to the content with other people, but without any.

Penetration. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Giancarlo: So let me understand because this is fascinating for me. I think that we’re going through a second wave of sexual revolution, much more complete, much more holistic. In the 60s was very political. It was almost the woman, you know, almost felt the right to be as promiscuous man. And, and, but, but now I feel it’s more about being whole.

It’s more about It’s, it’s more like a spiritual practice, the, the, this, this movement in neotantra, sexual liberation, conscious intimacy, however you want to call it. But so, [00:25:00] when if I’m not indiscreet, you can, you can not answer, but you know, you said that You wanted to address some of the aspects of your sexuality that might have been a little bit, maybe, you know unaware or unconscious or cultural condition.

Can you elaborate a little bit? 

Eliane: Yeah, I can start with when I was a little, little kid. I started masturbating very, very early. And I remember, like, waiting for my sister to, to breathe, like, deeper, to understand that she was sleeping, and since we were sharing the room, so I could very without any intention, was very, very little, probably three, four years old but it was just Called to, to, to, to look for this, to feel this pleasure in, in my body.

And at the same time with the religion very present in, in my, in my family and the environment that was I grew up. There was this shame that came together. And so I wasn’t really keen to talk about sexuality with, in, in the family. I did it a bit with my friends when I was a [00:26:00] teenager. But the only information we had was like And maybe something Told by the ma, the mother of a friend, but not anymore.

And so I had to discover it myself. And today I can say I was very, very conditioned by what society tells us about sexuality. 

Giancarlo: Just you have to please the man 

Eliane: to please the man to, to, to perform. Mm-hmm . To do the most. Like 

Speaker 4: acrobatic, 

Eliane: acrobatic. This is the word acrobatic things to be like always sexually attracted by, by, by the other man.

And in, I had to realize that I had a lot of sexual energy in my body. I didn’t know really what to do with that. Because masturbating wasn’t enough and so there was this this leak that was all, all the time calling me towards a sexual encounter with, with someone. And I know [00:27:00] today thanks to the Enneagram of personality, that that was my way of asking for love.

I mean, I was given sex in order to receive love, but unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. And so I was dragged into this short, intense relationships in which I was fouling, falling in love with someone. after just having an orgasm and not and giving so much space to the sexual attraction and to our pleasure together that I wasn’t really able to see the other person.

I wasn’t really knowing the other person. So eventually, after like 467 months, I was like, Oh, who am I with? And so maybe go to the next one. I see. And, and, and also this was causing a lot of concentration of energy in the lower chakras, for example. And today I’m aware that that was also something physical that was happening to me.

Today my, my energy is way more balanced. And [00:28:00] so I’m not so dragged into this, this type of connections. Actually. I’m not called by them at all. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re gonna, we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk how you got there. But I just wanted to underline this term you used. You know, leaking, you know, I think that that indicate well that the leak of the sexual energy, you know, just the term leaking is is not compatible with the real fulfillment.

It’s more like losing something. So there’s almost like a bitter taste, and it’s almost a sense of being depleted rather than be. regenerated. So you brought this conditioning with you. You’ve realized that you attracted people that were in a certain way working on their sexual energy. You had the insight of, let’s listen for a second.

Why the university send me this, this, this, you know, these people in this path, you do your work, you, you do your, you develop a very regular discipline, [00:29:00] daily practice. And you decided to also start a period of celibacy. 

Eliane: Yes. 

Giancarlo: And then what? 

Eliane: And then what? And then I, I thought that I had to relearn how to be intimate and I started like a long sequence of retreats and workshops and trainings addressing sexuality from different perspectives.

I remember that the previous boyfriend I had was really embodying this more sacred sexuality. And it was suggesting to me to do some practices that I wasn’t really understanding at that time. And after some of the trainings I’ve done, yeah, I could really understand what was meaning to me. Give the sacredness of the to the body to treat the bodies in the real temple and ritualize the intimate intimate encounter.

So, yeah, I was I was practicing [00:30:00] and relearning about sexuality, but without penetration. And that for me was a challenge and also at the same time, my, my stronger practice because taking out from the equation the goal of the intercourse was really opening the field to all the rest. And I realized that to really be sensitive in all the body, first of all, I need time.

Second, I need all my body to be stimulated and then the, the level of reactivity of receptivity that my body has with all the cells of, of my skin will re literally raise the pleasure, raise the vital energy, raise the sexual energy. And from there. Then you can do what you want. I mean, basically, you can start manifesting in life what you really, really want.

Maybe we’ll get to sex magic. [00:31:00] But yeah, I really need to needed to abstain from penetration to do this. Because otherwise it’s too easy to go back to the old practice, to the, to the comfortable one also, because we learned a way of being intimate and we’re comfortable in, in, in there. And we don’t want to with another person to feel uncomfortable, especially when it gets to sexuality.

We want to show our best. And for me, it was very, very important to do this step. 

Giancarlo: But so in the four year Master of Transpersonal Psychology in Barcelona, there was not, 

Eliane: Sexuality wasn’t addressed. Ah, interesting. No, no, no, it’s not part of it. There is in the school there is a specific master about sexuality, 

Giancarlo: but it’s not integrated with the transpersonal, no, no, it’s maybe, maybe it should, 

Eliane: or it 

Giancarlo: will.

I mean, if you think about arrows as a cosmic force. It’s definitely transpersonal. It is. Yeah. [00:32:00] Okay, great. So now where are we? You did your course, you did your course, you harness your sexual energy in a more satisfactory manner. So now you’re ready to start giving back all this knowledge. So how did you package this wisdom and how are you giving it back?

Eliane: So, yeah, I took the opportunity of last year when they fired me to stop for a moment and together with a magnificent mentor We, we came up with the, my new project, which is Spicy Spirit. 

Giancarlo: Jorge, Jorge 

Eliane: Ferrer. Well, Jorge, I can define him as one of my professors in life and in the course. But my mentor is Carolina, a Brazilian woman, incredible Brazilian woman.

She lives also here on the island. 

Giancarlo: For people who are curious about Jorge Ferrer, we had two podcasts with him here. So I think it’s episode four [00:33:00] and 30, one 

Eliane: of my greatest also teachers about polyamory and open relating. Yeah. I have to. 

Giancarlo: We haven’t talked about that yet. Oh, so, so, so, okay, continue. 

Eliane: And so, yeah, this the spicy spirit project means that I will death, I will finally My, my purpose.

And so I would start put this in service for other people. So all the teachings I, I, I received and integrate on how to be more connected to my body, how to get in tune with my desire, how to be more conscious and present in intimacy is transforming to workshops. So I led some workshops last year winter in Barcelona around the conscious intimacy.

And they were together with another colleague of mine. And, and then the, the things just start coming towards me. I’m [00:34:00] giving private therapy sessions. And I’m accompanying other human beings in being more aware in this. Path of Consciousness. And at the same time, I keep exploring myself, all this realm of intimacy.

And I got in contact with Shibari, which is one of my passions now. And I organized a few workshops around it also. I’m practicing with my ropes every now and then. And And now I’m also thinking about organizing temple nights. So it’s a whole process, work in progress which is very fluently developing unfolding quite organically.

Giancarlo: But so can you maybe Describe the temple night a little bit for people that don’t know. 

Eliane: Yeah, definitely. Temple night. The, the, the idea of temple goes back to the ancient Greece. When the soldiers were coming from war and they can be very bloody [00:35:00] wars at that time before going back to their families, they would stop in these temples and their priestesses would clean them not only physically, but also energetically and.

One of the most powerful energies we have is the sexual energy. So they were also cleaned in their sexual energy by these priestesses. And so they could be able to go back to their families as human beings. And so the art of temple, and from there the temple knights really takes back that concept of the sacredness of sexuality.

And so the aim is to create a safe space and time because there is a start and an end in which people gather consciously. to set a common intention of exploring their pleasure in their own ways. And they’re able to do it in, in this, in this place with respect, with consent with presence. And, [00:36:00] and so Normally, there can be no boundaries, general boundaries, let’s say some of them have as a general boundary, no penetration, but it’s not a must.

The thing is, it’s an open space to exploration to sexual exploration where everything is welcome from eye gazing to meditation to having a threesome to explore more deeply the sexual energy. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a it’s a beautiful set up. I think it was created by Easter. Which is the international school of temple art that I’d love to cover real quick, but just just one quick question You were sick saying in Greek time.

The warriors were coming back from war and then they were like energetically cleanse But so how does the sexuality how can you sexuality for cleaning? 

Eliane: Well when I say energetically I mean, also physically. I mean it’s just a matter [00:37:00] of density. I mean, from energy to matter is just getting more dense, more dense, more dense.

And we have the body. So it’s like a wall cleansing and sexual energy is. the energy of life. So basically it’s planting a seed of new life after the cleaning. 

Speaker 4: And so 

Eliane: in this sense sexual energy is, is super healing because it’s bringing life to the cells, basically 

Giancarlo: to the 

Eliane: cells, to the sense of the body.

Yeah. Through orgasm, through pleasure, pleasure. I mean the orgasm is just the, the, the, the pike of, of the Yeah. But pleasure is, is healing. It’s not only the orgasm. We can feel different levels of pleasure, different intensity of pleasures and not even reaching the orgasm. And so through expressing 

Giancarlo: pleasure, they were cleansing from the horror they’ve been.

Eliane: Yeah, yeah. 

Giancarlo: Interesting. 

Eliane: Yeah. Reliving the pleasure. It’s, it was like [00:38:00] meeting again from the, the man. full of armors that was fighting, meeting again the life through the body of a woman. So it was reconnecting to life, not from a survivor mode, but from surrender or surrender. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Beautiful.

Okay. So how can we bring all these different threads together? So, so you created now, so you’re doing workshop, you’re doing psychotherapy, you do conscious intimacy, but so how do you reconcile all these different teaching, which is, you know, as part of the transpersonal IC plant medicine, non ordinary state.

So in your teaching and in your own development, how. How are you integrating these two different modality, the non ordinary state and the sexuality? Do they work together? 

Eliane: This is a big question. [00:39:00] When I refer to conscious sexuality and conscious intimacy, I do really prefer to separate it from substances that can alterate or.

modify my presence. So the most present, the most embodied, the most grounded I am in a sexual space, more I’m sure that I will really follow what is my desire, that I would really do. What’s good for me in that moment? When he gets to some substances or not ordinary states of consciousness, then the amount of material that is coming from the unconscious.

I’m not sure that as of now, I would be able to integrate it in the same way. Moment and time. So I would separate those two things or approach them in a very experimental way. I mean, very consciously. Okay, let’s try what’s what’s happening with a substance [00:40:00] and sexuality together. But it will be a very interesting experiment.

So in my life in this moment, I would use like not non ordinary states of consciousness to deepen in my in my path of, of healing, of getting to know myself, because I really find that it’s an accelerator of the therapeutic process. And on the other side, I would consciously and very presently work on sexuality.

And then maybe there could be like an experiment of mixing them together. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, 

Speaker 4: yeah, yeah, 

Giancarlo: yeah. Interesting. How do you, how do you use, you know, what is your position today on spirituality? And, and, and do you, how do you, do you, and if yes, how do you use it for in your profession? Do you integrate the spirit realm in your teachings?

Eliane: I, I do and depending on, on, [00:41:00] on the person and the, the level of openness that the person is, is showing. For sure I start like planting seeds from the first session because I bring what is my experience. And for me, spirituality is something very present in, in my life. But I don’t want to already set a framework in which the client has to believe in like past and future lives, in the path of the soul, and karma, and entities, and all this kind of stuff.

But there are different words that can be used to like approach this, this topics for who is a bit more yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And when there is an, a door open, then I definitely open it. 

Giancarlo: So what is what is the role of spirituality in personal development? And how how can you can you can you maybe draw a parallel or a comparison between personal development and [00:42:00] spiritual development?

Eliane: I think that we are spiritual beings in a human body. So we have to use the body here on, on, on earth in this life to get the most out of it, but we cannot forget that we come from something higher and that our purpose has to be has to go beyond just reaching something in this material life.

So I truly believe that there’s no personal development without taking into consideration the spiritual one. The spiritual one is kind of the lighthouse is marking the direction all the time is bringing you information from the past and from or your lineage and gives you the, the, the north of what your soul has come to, to do in, in this world.

So the thing is, how do I use my my talents, my gifts, my my capacities, my abilities that this body has given me [00:43:00] my mind with my knowledge with my abilities? How do I use it for this higher purpose? Because otherwise, I don’t think, or I didn’t experience myself some fulfillment in what I do. There is not a higher reason that would help you in dark moments to continue waking up in the morning if there is not something that goes beyond the materialism.

Giancarlo: And how do you figure it out where you are on your soul journey? 

Eliane: Good question. Good question. I would love to have a recipe for that. Probably an Italian recipe. But I think that probably true. the most challenging moments of our life, when we probably reached the bottom, then there is the openness to really let go all the structures or the beliefs that had led us to that bottom.

And Open our, [00:44:00] our mind to something different. 

Giancarlo: And that’s a step up in your journey. Yes. 

Eliane: Can be like a a plant medicine journey. Can be a burnout. Can be a very sad. A crisis. A crisis. A breakup the, the, the loss of a, of a beloved, I mean, there are a lot of triggers. Kundalini awakening spontaneously, I wouldn’t recommend that.

Yeah. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. You know we have interview, I interview many facilitator and they integrate psychedelics in their practice in Mexico or in place where it’s legal or in Peru or you haven’t, you don’t integrate psychedelics yet. in your practice? No, no, not yet. Because there is one thing that I’m fascinated, you know, like, as you know, psychedelic are exploding, you know, the medicalization is well advanced.

MDMA will be legal next year. And then shortly after, psilocybin will be medicalized so you can buy it. [00:45:00] 

Eliane: We already have Santa Maria. So it’s still cannabis. Yeah, it’s still a super powerful plant. Yeah, we don’t have to forget because we mix a lot with tobacco, which is a lower energy. But yes, there is. 

Giancarlo: Yeah.

I mean, for me, marijuana is a little bit of a different category because It does a little bit create dependency. I feel I would put him on a different class of psychedelic. Of course, he’s a master plant. Of course, has incredible knowledge. But sometimes I feel, you know, Graham Hancock would say that every plant has a spirit and every spirit has a personality.

So the ayahuasca is the loving grandmother. The iboga is the stern grandfather and the San Pedro is the funny uncle or something. And, and cannabis is the trickster. And sometime, you know, I had 15 years of cannabis addiction. So for me, it’s a little bit a tricky one. But my [00:46:00] question is this, you know, now that, you know people realize that the integration from the psychedelic trip is very important.

They are integration classes and workshop and schools popping up everywhere. You look on Instagram and I had the opportunity to ask to a couple of these, um, person that have started these integration classes. Okay. How do you integrate a spiritual revelation which can be under the form of an angel, a spirit or a malevolent or a monster or a feeling of fear, but, but, but a concrete presence of an a supernatural, a supernatural phenomenon.

And, and, and people still don’t know. You know, everybody’s good at integrating the material from your subconscious with personal transformation and how I can tap to my full potential, how I can make the unconscious conscious. All the personal development, it’s quite clear. But then the moment [00:47:00] that there is an entity or, or, you know, one of the facilitators said, but at this point I will go back to the shaman.

That’s his responsibility. Some other would say she couldn’t really answer very well. So. I feel that there’s such a missed opportunity, right? Imagine, you know, if you look at this, this way, you know, we are here, this Western white people, we go to the Amazon, we take this medicine away from them. We medicalize them.

We turn into appeals. We give it to people in order for them to feel better and to do the personal work. We, we, we support them for the personal work. And then the moment that there is like a supernatural phenomenon, which is why this plant will use. all along for thousands of years, they were used to navigate spirit.

Then at that moment, then we go back to them. It doesn’t make any sense, right? It’s like we need to understand like bend the loan from us years in this podcast explains very well. He says, people need to understand that this medicine, they’re not pills. They’re not they’re not [00:48:00] an object, another product.

They are like a process. And this process come with a different Ontology of reality. You know, when the she people, the Kogi and the indigenous wisdom, they talk about the, the river being the brother or the mountain being the brother or the moon. It’s not a metaphor. They feel molecular connected. So this process come with that kind of ontology, that kind of cosmovision.

So when you do do the work with the shabi, for example, you, you, you heal your lineage, you’ll go back into your lineage. And so this is. Nobody’s teaching that. Well, 

Eliane: I had a teacher in the master, Mark Calvet, and another one, Nicholas Dumont. And they do work with the entities. They had their awakening and they’re able.

to connect these two words our 3D worlds and the subtle world. And so they, they’re able to, to call certain entities [00:49:00] to clean the space from others that are not so welcome. And so I think there are also, there is also a Western way of dealing with with this type of yeah, spirits. 

Giancarlo: What is this Western way?

Eliane: I mean they, they, they still use It’s, it doesn’t have to be the shaman in the Amazon to do that. It’s about developing this openness and sensibility to these subtle presences. And I don’t know what was their school, if there was a school, probably not. It was just our, An awakening of this gift in them and this ability of open the perspective is just if I look at you in this moment, I can see you just the surface or start like looking more deep and it’s developing and training this where we put the attention, the energy goals.

So it’s just really paying attention [00:50:00] to this and we can Talk to these entities, for example, I didn’t have an episode myself, but I know from first hand people who had this kind of events in their lives, and they’ve been told, yes. tell this entity to just go away, they eventually will. I mean we, we can treat them and not just be scared of, of rum from them, you know, in a way.

And there is also always a message there 

Giancarlo: for us. Because it’s difficult for the typical, you know, secular materialistic that is attracted to this medicine because maybe they have a chronic condition and they read on the paper that, you know, for depression or addiction or anxiety or for this like mental ailment.

But then, you know, this phenomenon can happen. And I feel that there is not a proper, you know, container for, you know, for people [00:51:00] who doesn’t have already a religious practice. It can be very destabilizing to, to, to go through this, this experience is that we know we don’t have, we don’t have a protocol to integrate them.

Eliane: And the thing where you, you, you, you, I think you had the answer Before saying it’s a process. Yeah. Taking a plant medicine, it’s not the solution of a problem. Yeah. It’s not the pill to calm the fever. Yeah. It’s a process you have to undertake because what, what’s the most important after the experience, what you do with that.

And for that you need in my opinion, a therapeutic approach of a therapist who is. Open to this field. I mean, it wouldn’t just go back to conductivism or more rational approach to life. I mean, we need to be a campaign and validated in these experiences. To really take the best out of them.

Speaker 4: And it 

Eliane: takes time. And it will imply a lot of change in our life. Probably we will [00:52:00] change our job we will slowly start gather with different type of people. I mean, it’s all part of this process and requires effort and, and energy, yeah. I see. 

Giancarlo: Okay. So now regarding the future, what’s, what’s you know, what’s in a pipeline for you?

More, more of the same workshops. Is there anything that how people can find you if they want to work with you? Give us a little bit of a commercial, 

Eliane: okay, so I have my website, which is www. spicyspirit. eu and the same is an Instagram spicy spirit and I work online with private sessions to a company, a company in therapeutically people in their processes can be like a normal crisis or more focused.

Requests around the intimacy [00:53:00] to really awaken desire to tune into desire, to step into the body and relearn this new way of being intimate in their lives. They can come to Ibiza when I do my workshops and I will announce the dates for Barcelona. And I’m thinking about bringing this work also to Italy.

Speaker 4: Nice. 

Eliane: It’s good. Going back to the roots. Nice. And bring a bit of my medicine there. Actually I will be assisting in in a retreat in in Italy in in October. So yeah, we With Jorge? 

Giancarlo: Yeah, with Jorge. What’s the, what’s the website of that? 

Eliane: Eh, it’s transpersonal Somatic through the Asha.

Giancarlo: Yeah. 

Eliane: No, not aka, I think it’s Akasha or Aisha. 

Giancarlo: We’ll put, we will put her on the show notes. Yeah, definitely. So that’s amazing. One quick question, but do you work with couple also for conscious 

Eliane: intimacy? I haven’t started yet, but I’m definitely open open to to work with them. Yeah, I’ve been receiving a lot of requests from women recently, so I’m creating a program [00:54:00] for women to get back in contact with their bodies and to really.

tune into their desire to work with them individually and then got it together in a workshop. But couples are definitely 

Giancarlo: yeah, because I feel there is an imbalance. You know, you hear so much of woman doing this work and then, you know, there’s going to be all this sexually empowered woman, but not enough sexually empowered men.

Eliane: Exactly. But on, on the other hand, there is a big wave of men also. So start working with sexuality. I just read the a post from one of the facilitator of my Easter level two who just finished a brother a brother retreat. A brotherhood. Yeah. Yeah. A brotherhood retreat with a lot of men.

Mm-hmm . There are some workshops that are calling women for free because there are two men. So I, I really think that things are. starting shifting a little bit. I mean, men are really stepping out and I’m super welcome [00:55:00] that 

Giancarlo: stepping up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so, but so just take another two minutes.

Why? Why is pleasure healing? Why is pleasure important? 

Eliane: Oh, I think pleasure is one of the other substances, if it can be defined as a substance that can take you to a non ordinary state of consciousness. I experienced it myself. This winter with a with a lover. I mean, I was theorizing this idea of how we could connect to the really divine and spiritual energy here.

through sexuality and I had a whole theory around it. And then when I finally could live it and experience it in my body, I really transcendent state through this loving and adorable encounter. So yeah, I think that pleasure is this. Is from the biological side is a combination of hormones and chemicals, [00:56:00] but on the spiritual level is just the bridge, the connection with something higher.

Giancarlo: Amazing. I think that’s a perfect way to end. Thank you very much, Eliane, and looking forward to have you back next year, just to check on how’s everything going. 

Eliane: Thank you Giancarlo, my pleasure. Thank 

Giancarlo: you.

Speaker: Co ca su na ra e su na ra e nti. Co ca su na ra e su na ra e nti. Co ca su na ra e su na ra e nti. Co ca su na ra e su na ra e nti. Coca zonada, it’s zonada and tea. Coca zonada, it’s zonada 

and tea.