47: Shiri Godasi on a Multidimensional Model for Integration and The Psyched Soul

Psyched Soul
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Neurons to Nirvana
From Shock To Awe
The Song That Calls You Home
Carl Jung
Ekhart Tole – pain body
LIB
MDMA
Holotropic Breathwork
Psilocybin
Cannabis
Ketamine
Ayahuasca
Kambo
Michael Pollan
Soul Walk In
Dolores Cannon
MAPS – MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
Dr. Gabor Maté
Dr. Nader Buto
Dr. Joe Tafur
Iboga
Bwiti
Shipibo
ICEERS
Mihai Love

Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello. Hi. Welcome to this new episode of the Mango TV podcast. Today we have Shiri Godasi. Shiri Godasi, MA, is a mother, integration therapist, global medicine woman, author and poet, visionary entrepreneur and philanthropist. A creative educator for 25 years, she’s passionate about creating a decolonized, psychedelic positive counterculture and empowering people to step into radical authenticity And conscious [00:01:00] leadership to co create a just world.

A teacher to teachers, Shirin is best known for pioneering methods in the field of psychedelic integration. and community bridging, including founding five entheogenic harm reduction organizations, funding and directing a professional psychedelic therapy and creative leadership training program, and innovating a proven integration treatment protocol called the Psyched Soul Method.

Shiri specializes in multidimensional, one to lip transformations, soul code recovery and realignment. Her approach draws from Consciousness and Cosmology, Transpersonal Psychology, Quantum Healing, Eastern Philosophy and Multidisciplinary Arts, Fusing Ancient Wisdom with Modern Practices for a Psychic Lifestyle.

Her website is PsychicSoul. com. Anyhow, this is a great bio, our people are here for a treat. Our listener comes from the [00:02:00] psychedelic world because I started with producing documentary. I don’t know how much you know about Mango TV, but we produce Neurons to Nirvana. Do you remember that documentary? 

Shiri: I, I’m not sure I’m aware of it.

Which one? Neurons. 

Giancarlo: Oh, Neurons from Nirvana. 

Shiri: Yes, of course. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. So we did that, you know, like almost 20 years ago. And and so we, you know, we were, we were the very first one, Mangusta production was producing documentary like Neurons from Nirvana, Shock 2, The Songs That Brings You Home Icarus, anyway, we, we, we produced a lot of documentary on psychedelics.

And and now in the second activity, if you want, of Mangusta, of Mangusta production, the podcast, we focus mostly, I mean, we focus on personal transformation. And then of course psychedelic have a tendency to do that, to transform, to transform lives. So let’s, let’s start from, give us [00:03:00] a little bit of you know, Biographical information, you know, where were you born, where you’re from and how did you you know, what were the cathartic moment that, you know, make you decide to devote your life in helping others in this very fascinating field?

Shiri: Sure thanks for having me on the podcast. So Giancarlo, I understand that you’re basically asking me to begin with the stories and narratives that have conditioned me to become the human that I used to be and then I had to break through them to be the The being that I am today. Is that correct?

Giancarlo: Correct. 

Shiri: Yeah, so just to keep things you know, nice and tight. I was geographically born took body form in the land of Israel. This was back in the seventies and you know, just grew up in a very like hardworking, modest family. Immigrants from Iran and you know, just [00:04:00] again, hardworking, basic education and from the get go, I was poised as, or tagged as.

You know, the troublemaker you, we know that in every family there, we have different roles in the family system. So I was definitely like the rebel, the troublemaker, the scapegoat, the one that was always shaking things up and not letting anyone settle. And then of course we we moved to the United States when when I was 11 years old, which was another big transformation for our family.

I did not realize how that immigration. That was so traumatic on me, left such a big impact on who I was. You know, at the time we were, we were living in Beverly Hills. You know, 90210, I went to Beverly Hills High. Any person that would probably hear this would think, Wow, you know, like she’s from the movies, lived in Hollywood.

And sure, that, that is actually correct. But we were literally living again, modest family, my parents moved us from Israel to the U S so they could, we, they [00:05:00] could find a better life for us. And that’s, so we would not have to go into the military like they did and, you know, continue in the perpetuated war in Israel.

We lived in a tiny two bedroom apartment. My parents slept in the living room so we could go to the schools in Beverly Hills. And again, set working seven days a week, just like a very modest. And I’m sharing again and again. You know, I’m using the word modest, humble, because I think, you know, a lot of, a lot of people that look at us at psychedelic leaders and think, wow, you know, they, they’ve probably had like, you know, so much circumstance going for them, like conscious families, educated, they had the privilege.

And I, I’m, I’m naming the hardships because I literally, I feel like all the difficulties that life has positioned me with. basically positioned me with so much suffering that I had no choice but to find a way to just break through all that and get myself out of [00:06:00] there. And so basically I was in a very ripe place, you know, like a lot of people are, and when they’re, when they turn to psychedelics and plant medicines, I had deep, like, I didn’t realize this at the time, but I was heavily depressed.

So much cultural trauma that I couldn’t even name. Relational issues. I just could not, could not find my place in the world. I was, again, myself too, I was very hard working, you know, doing everything that I was taught and wasn’t getting into anywhere that I wanted to be in life. I just felt underwhelmed, not just feeling that there was something out there for me.

And I just, because I was so heavily caged in that Jewish Iranian cultural, like, no woman needs to get married and have Children. And this is all she does. Like, you’re not allowed to do anything else. And basically like all of your life is hinged on this husband that you’re going to have I was like really wrapped in that and I resisted it.[00:07:00] 

I resisted it until one day You know through all the hardship. I said i’m still not living the life. I want even though i’m resisting this So where do I belong and I I asked god to send me the answer and And then thankfully into my life Game plant medicines and psychedelics. 

Giancarlo: Wow. So which, which year, how old were you more or less when you asked God for help?

Shiri: I was in my mid thirties, which is exactly the time as Carl Jung says, you know, we spent like the first half of our lives 

Giancarlo: doing research, 

Shiri: looking for all the exactly answers and building externally so we can, you know, find ourselves. But then in midlife, you know, we We realize that the answers are not going to come from the outside and then we go within.

So that’s exactly what happened to me. 

Giancarlo: But so if you don’t mind me asking in your mid thirties, what were the symptoms of your discontent? [00:08:00] 

Shiri: Sure. So again, I was having a lot of relationship issues. I just wasn’t, you know, I just like relationship after failed relationship. I was having a lot of issues with.

With my parents, my family wasn’t just not getting along with them, not fitting into that box, but also not having the tools to escape out of there. I was also working at the time because of. Logistics issue when we moved to the United States again, we immigrated to the United States we actually even though we were filed for residency for decades I at my mid 30s still did was not legal in the United States, even though I went to school there So I couldn’t couldn’t actually go and get a proper job.

So I was in my mid 30s I had my under my undergrad degree but I did not have I was not able to go and apply for a normal job Like any woman in her 30s can’t I couldn’t build my life. So I was literally working under the table In jobs that I felt were degrading my soul [00:09:00] just to make ends meet And, you know, I was, I was making it through, but I knew that this was not what, why I felt like my, my life was being wasted.

I knew that my mom had a really good mind, really beautiful mind that I wasn’t applying and I wasn’t serving my purpose that much. I knew aside from that, the word consciousness meant absolutely nothing to me. Spirituality meant absolutely nothing to me aside from, you know, lighting Shabbat candles on Friday night and doing the Jewish holidays.

And I just, I was just Not just, I think I’m not, I wasn’t living fully. I was, this main road life wasn’t living fully and was just miserable, miserable. 

Giancarlo: But so there was pretty much like external conditions, which were of course, very I can see how you might feel, you know, in, in different culture. Non accepted, not wanted, but that was, you know, you had an internal sense of where you’re connected with yourself.

You were like, did you feel, [00:10:00] you know, you had a fracture of the self, or it was, you were just on a, on a, on a very different culture that didn’t allow you to express yourself. 

Shiri: I think it’s a little bit of both. I don’t think that at the time, we’re not just, it’s not that I don’t think, I, I know for a fact that at the time I did not have the terminology to articulate, not even have the emotional intelligence 

Speaker: to 

Shiri: articulate what I was going through, and even when I went to get, moved on to get my master’s in psychology, while I was in school learning about trauma, I still could not articulate that the, the, the, intergenerational direct and indirect trauma that I’ve endured my entire life.

And, and literally it took, it took plant medicines to help me even just become aware of that, let alone develop the language to be able to articulate it, which is a whole other thing. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. G calls them, no, sorry, sorry. Kar calls them, you know, pain body on [00:11:00] the country level. You, you get, you, you get the trauma from your, you know, like the Native American or, or the revolution of Iran.

And, but so, okay, so you, you pray to God to, for help and God sends you plant medicine in which form it 

Shiri: arrived. Well, the form that it arrived is when I finally again, I was always just in transitions at the time and I. Felt that, you know, despite my feeling, again, very dissociated from my culture, detached, I was looking for my tribe.

And I just started going to the Transformational Festival scene in Los Angeles. I began attending Lightning in a Bottle. Burning man connecting with these people then going to Coachella and through that scene. I began very like sporadically experimenting as they say with with with these substances until one day in Spring of 2014.

I was at my first and last Coachella festival [00:12:00] At the time I had again no education about psychedelics No concept of set and setting, not understanding anything about dosages. I just knew that these things could, you know could mean a good time and a friend handed me a packet of MDMA. I have no idea how much was in that packet of MDMA, except that I know that it was now from the you know, reflecting back, I believe that it was, you know, three or four times a typical dose that a person would take.

What would require and and that experience literally cracked me open and from that moment on without getting into the details of what happened on that evening, but you know, I’ve spoken about this on so many different podcasts, it’s all over the internet but that, that, that, that one, one multiple dose of MDMA And, you know, for the first time in my existence, or at least in this, in this lifetime that I’m currently in, for the first time in this lifetime, under that influence of the [00:13:00] substance, I felt So incredibly connected to other people able to like to be in an intimate conversations without shying away under understanding for the first time what the Unconditional love is or at least experiencing in that way being able to communicate without words with thousands of other people and they you know, just communicating through energy And having an immense amount of gratitude like I’d never before even knew was possible.

So these are some of the things I experienced that and I, you know, drove home the next day, just crying, crying, like the tears would not stop. Something moved within me. And just, I felt So incredibly, I felt so privileged and so fortunate that I was gifted that window, that there is another, there is more outside of this bubble of human suffering that I’ve been born into and also created [00:14:00] for myself.

So that gratitude that I felt just for, again, like being like able to glimpse into something like that, that what picked my curiosity, I just wanted to like continue being in that gratitude and understand, like explore that again, like peek into that window more and see what else is there because there’s something else.

So over the next few months, since, you know, I just, I decided, wow, there is something there, something therapeutic, you know, beyond the very fun, beautiful recreational experiences that we have typically at festivals, there is something therapeutic in this modality. And within the next few months, it’s like, it was just being shown to me everywhere through just like different levels of.

Encounters like serendipitous moments that I wouldn’t have never before been aware of, right? Suddenly, like, there was a more awareness [00:15:00] to see the synchronicities, to see, like, the divine intelligence that’s operating. Again, I did not yet have that language to even articulate what I’m able to articulate now, but I, I felt like life was communicating with me and exactly six months, almost to the day after that MDMA experience, I, I began meditating because I was going through a terrible heartbreak and I did for the first time in my life, it’s kind of like a breath of fire meditation, just off of YouTube with no substances, completely sober.

I mean, if it matters, I was just, you know, to color the picture a little bit, I was working in New Orleans at a, at a for a convention I was working in and I remember returning to my room after a really difficult day Again, a lot of relational issues. I had some trouble with my colleagues things that we couldn’t settle down And I just returned to my hotel room and just broke down.

I said I have to meditate I have to breathe through this put on a breathing meditation on youtube [00:16:00] and then had a holotropic breathwork experience complete visionary experience. I left my body. I saw visions of my old soul being broken and a new soul of light coming through my body. And I woke up as a conscious being.

And I woke up as a conscious being, and suddenly I saw the world in a completely different way. I knew that I was conscious again before that, that word, I couldn’t even articulate what it was. I, I knew that I was conscious. I knew that I was a being of light. I knew that I was here to be of service.

That was another whole new concept that again, meant nothing prior to that moment. And I knew that I was here to be of service in psychedelic therapy. So those are the four things I opened my eyes and knew. And from that moment that I woke up. Is again that conscious being that was completely aware knew what her felt like she knew what her [00:17:00] mission was Like I basically was encoded with a new knowledge that I didn’t have before and I had awareness of these codes I began operating in the world from that place and it was like a domino effect within a month I was back in school getting my master’s even though Despite all of again as mentioned like I wasn’t a resident.

I wasn’t even a legal resident I could not even go to you know apply to a higher degree if I wanted to you know Somehow, again, without getting into the details, I was able to make it through. I was accepted into grad school. I made it through all the hurdles of, you know, you’re not allowed, you know, I went through all of that, sat in school within a year and a half, got my, my master’s, met all the right people, started creating the psychedelic integration.

Society organization in Los Angeles doing research, working with clients in school, getting my coaching certification, just every, it was like, it was like, everything was rolled out. Effortlessly really. And you know, of course I B I was [00:18:00] still fairly new. When the plant medicine world at the time, let’s not forget, this was Again, 2014 prior to that, I had like very sporadic random engagements with this modality.

It’s not that, you know, I was doing this for years. It’s not that I like I was doing this in high school but in that moment it just became fully intentional again, fully intentional. This is my path and there is something here that is meant to heal all of us. And I’m committed to this study of learning how to heal all of us through learning how to heal myself and, and basically translating my journey as I go along.

And that’s how I became this what I’m, you know, my first organization was the psychedelic integration coach. Literally I became that cause I didn’t have the tools to integrate. I did not, I needed to be integrated so badly that I just became my own guru and just translated that to other people.

shared what I was learning. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. They say that the thing you can [00:19:00] teach the best is what you need to use the most. But, but so, so you talk about plant medicine, but so I heard about an MDMA experience, allotropic breathwork, and then there was some more entheogens, more of plant medicine type. 

Shiri: Oh yeah.

Of course. No, I’m definitely kind of like jumping forward in time. So I’m, I’m naming MDMA is that big experience that was my crack into this, this new reality. But yes, of course, I, the I would, I had, I had relationships with all the popular plant medicines and psychedelics, MDMA, psilocybin, cannabis.

Ketamine, ayahuasca LSD, am I missing anything? Those were the primary ones. Combo, DMT you know, of course, trying to be mindful of how to learn from all these different teachers. But yeah, I’ve, I’ve definitely, I’ve worked with the entire, with this entire family and other [00:20:00] ones, but these are the primary ones.

Giancarlo: But so you, you know how they say that, you know, spiritual growth is not a linear line, continuous line going up. It’s more like a step situation where for many times, sometimes you even would go down and then there is like a cathartic moment, there’s a big step up. So definitely the MDMA experience, definitely the Erotropic Breathwork.

What would be another couple of moment where there was a big step up in terms of understanding of yourself, the world, the connection in it and the purpose, et cetera. 

Shiri: Yeah. I mean, there were, there were so many ebbs and flows in the journey as you know, you just described it so well yourself, you know, and I feel like my journey.

In some ways is very similar to other people who are just waking up, right? So again, remember, I literally had an awakening experience, which I feel is very common right now on the planet. A lot of people, I feel like the pandemic was actually like really beneficial for that. Like a lot of people were brought down to their knees.

[00:21:00] During this era and again, we’re looking for a way out and began waking up. And you know So this is what happened and for most people that wake up in this way I feel like in the beginning there’s there’s kind of like the honeymoon stage, right? This is amazing Wow, you know everything is like going for me if you feel like you like you were gifted life and you and then you know once you kind of like you you you You get into that groove and you get into some sort of a literal and metaphorical high And there is that initial fire of awakening There is an initial fire where we literally feel like we can do anything and this is you know Not any different from a lot of people that go to ayahuasca for the first time in the jungle and they say wow I’m here to heal the planet I’m gonna open a retreat center and be a shaman and this and that right so I Went through something similar in that way.

I mean, I didn’t want to be a shaman and do that but Immediately I knew this is my path, I’m gonna go to school, I’m gonna become a psychedelic therapist, let me start this [00:22:00] organization, let me, you know, facilitate these classes, and just like dipping my toes everywhere, and then, I had

An experience, and this one was, let’s say, with, specifically with a combination of LSD and MDMA, which is an, I think, one of my favorite combinations of all time. I took it specifically, and again, in a therapeutic, With a highly therapeutic intention. I did like the classic thing just in my room with eye shades on.

I had some, again, these relationship problems wouldn’t stop and I just wanted to understand why they were happening. And this particular experience just Showed me, you know, showed me within me the roots, the traumatic roots of, of of this reality, you know, roots that did not begin with, with me necessarily, but were being manifested through me through behavioral patterns that I was just, you know, playing out [00:23:00] unconsciously.

And that experience brought me to my knees literally. And that was, I feel like that was kind of like an entrance to a portal of a very heavy, dark night of the soul. Through which, you know, I went concurrently and I want to just emphasize that during that time, you know, I was, married to the love of my life, also a psychedelic person, very well known in our community.

We, we fell in love immediately. We created a family. I went through pregnancy. I had a daughter. I also had postpartum depression. You know, we were, we moved a house. There were so many things that were happening while I was just like, again, on my knees, studying with the medicines, trying to take care of myself, trying to take care of my baby.

So I was operating in both dimensions and surfing big waves on both dimensions and it was a lot. And So there were definitely like steps in these years that, you know, as you said, Giancarlo, like, okay, stuff that kind of escalated. There were a few of those, but I feel [00:24:00] like overall, I feel like Again, all these years, I feel like I’ve kind of been operating in a vacuum reality, and maybe this is a great topic to discuss that I feel is really important for listeners who are you know, excited about the psychedelic field, you know, they find their tribe, they want to be of service.

They just basically like throw themselves into the world of using all of these medicines and it’s like very sexy and enticing and trendy to like talk about like how amazing psychedelics are for personal growth and, and you know, we’re all doing all this work and we’re observance but no one wants to talk about like how incredibly difficult it can be to also be a human at the same time.

We are, you know, raising children, trying to get up and go to work, still have to go, you know, do our laundry, go shopping in the market, you know, we’re expected to show up and as our highest self all the time, you know, a lot, I feel like we’re kind of like we’ve disowned our human life being all [00:25:00] these psychedelic personas almost like, not almost, like literally shaming our human sides.

For the sake of collective enlightenment and awakening. And I feel like we’re almost kind of like doing ourselves a disservice. And not just ourselves, but a lot of other people that are approaching this modality. You know, a lot of people, we don’t, we don’t talk about the hardship, hardships as much.

Giancarlo: Yeah, the shadows. 

Shiri: Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, 

Giancarlo: yeah, I feel I, you know, before getting into now the, the, the part, the professional part of, you know, you deciding to teach the teacher, you know, integrate this knowledge, how to combine this information with, with, with the challenge of everyday life and our humanity.

I just want to go back a little bit, try to understand What’s happening, you think, you know, the MDMA, you know, I’m not as familiar as what’s happening in the brain with MDMA. I know there is like a surge of oxytocin. So there is this [00:26:00] feeling of, you know, we are in the same team is a very bonding hormones.

And so the, the, the, the, the fear, the flight and fight, the, The, the guard being, being guarded approach sorts of like dissipate in for, for the tryptamines, for the most classic Salosab in DMT. Michael Pollan talks about an egoic armor gets dissolved, the default mode network. So I’m wondering, what do you think about, because you said, Oh, I, I sort of like receive some codes, but maybe.

Maybe we always had them and maybe it’s just semantic. Maybe we already have this understanding, but it’s sort of covered by, you know, the egoic armor, but all the protection, all the armor that we build in, in a sense to get protected from the, from the neurological and spiritual injuries we get 

Speaker: from 

Giancarlo: childhood, from the parents, from a culture, from our You know, the [00:27:00] countries and we keep on building these like a cartilage around this neurological tear that, that basically prevent us from connecting with what’s with oneself and other.

Is it possible that it’s just a rediscovery of of some sort of wholeness that we. Already had before building all this protection. What do you think about this? Looking at this like that. 

Shiri: Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I think You know, you’re touching on a really interesting cultural point, right?

The whole idea of integration, popularly, you know, the psychedelic integration is a relatively new term and, and theory in, in the entheogenic world, and it’s simply a modality that has been invented or rather created from and presenting, you know, an evolving culture. And, you know, it’s hard to say exactly what it is.

We’re [00:28:00] literally figuring out again and narrate it, narrating it as we go along. And a lot of people, or rather, I’m sorry, I’m not going to say a lot of people, but culturally it’s assumed that integration helps us become more whole. Basically, it’s a method for us to become more whole. And I feel like this is kind of a replica or rather a projection of our larger culture, which Insists that doing the work and personal development and fixing ourselves as what we’re here is what we’re here to do, which I feel like it’s, it’s a type of systemic oppression.

Okay. Because what is it really communicating to us that we’re broken, that we’re some type of project that we need to take on ourselves. And if we’re not working, then we’re worthless. Then we’re not, we’re not showing up and we’re, we’re we’re not good enough. Right. So it’s basically perpetuating the [00:29:00] idea, these, this ancient abandonment, not good enough type of wound to just kind of keep us small and in our place and exhausted.

So I want to name that because I feel like this is something that’s prevailing in the psychedelic culture as well. And to answer your question, yes, I do believe that we are already whole. We are already whole, but too many people in our culture, including in the psychedelic world, tell us that we need to work on ourselves and fix ourselves.

And, and I’m kind of working against that, right? Okay, so there is all the, all these narratives and integration when we show up. And, you know, granted, a lot of us, myself included, have to go through that period of like rigorous. Work yourself to the bone to prove that we’re worthy to discover that nothing has been wrong with us all along.

We were always whole. We were always perfect. We’re always, we were always beings of light. I’m, you know, back then and now I’m the same being of light. Nothing has changed. The only thing that’s changed is my [00:30:00] perception and my awareness that the shadow is not going anywhere. The shadow has always been there.

The shadow is a mandatory, necessary part of the universe. And I am the universe and it’s, it’s who I am. It’s who we are, you know, the more that we try to enlighten it, you know, bring light to it, fix it, abolish it, abolish the demons and the darkness. And it’s that. I feel like it’s counterproductive. And, you know, with that With the event that I had again when I had like when I was awakened with these codes I feel like it’s nothing I can say for sure, right?

So I brought this up to another friend who’s steeped in in spiritual Teachings and and she shared with me about the concept of a walk in in spirituality, the concept of a walk in, that there are some souls that chose some type of a life journey. And the teacher, Dolores Cannon, by the [00:31:00] way, speaks to this all the time, the concept of a soul walk in.

So there are souls that operate on the planet and they come to a point where they just can no longer take it. And then basically the soul leaves the body and a new soul walks in and takes over the human form. So I’m not, I can’t say for sure if, you know, so my friend says, you know, you could have been a walk in.

I said, you know what, maybe, I don’t know. So it could have been a walk in and it could have be that, like you say. That holotropic breathwork, I was like so ready to just let everything go because I was in so much suffering, I was just ready to literally shake off. All the stories that, yeah, maybe, maybe I was finally in a place where I was ready to lose control, and I did lose control in that experience, and something else lit up inside of me, and I was finally able to receive it.

Giancarlo: Beautiful, beautiful. But so, let’s get into this integration business. That’s the, that’s the, that’s the core of your business, right? [00:32:00] You, you, you help, you, you, you train integration specialists to help, you know, psychedelic practitioner, to integrate this knowledge into their daily life. So maybe let’s, what is the how does it work?

How this, how your integration protocol works? 

Shiri: Sure. So I developed an integration method called the Psych2Soul method, and it’s been developed over the years that I’ve been in the field, working as a community builder. You know, when I got started, I literally, everything I did was for free or by donation, just creating meetups.

Sharing circles, creating protocols, and then slowly building my coaching practice, slowly giving classes. And then people started asking me, wow, do you give, do you, can you actually do like a longer training? I’m like, sure. I have like all the material I’ve developed for my clients. So all, everything that I’ve created has been created through field experience, working with clients and through myself, my [00:33:00] personal study.

And I really just want to emphasize that. And of course also my background in the academia. And at the time in 2016, I believe I was affiliated, or I took the MAPS Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, for just starting their MDMA assisted psychotherapy training program. I entered that program and I did a couple of the modules and in there I learned about the protocols that they used for the clinical trials of MDMA.

Which we know that MDMA, when used in a certain context, certain setting, and with a certain protocol by MAPS, which for them, it’s one month of prep, three treatments, and then a month of integration and, and that protocol provides impressive results for people who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder.

So I was in that program and at the same time I was also, I had some friends who [00:34:00] actually went through that clinic, these clinical trials as participants, did the treatments, did the whole protocol. And I learned through them that, you know, after four months of working with MAPS and the trials, going through that protocol, they were basically, they felt like they were thrown back into the water.

They dealt with their trauma, but had no idea how to operate now as people that have their trauma in check, right? So there were no words on habits. They were lacking community. Basically they, it was, they were having difficulty sustaining the incredible results. So it’s like the results were kind of like in a vacuum, but weren’t really grounded in their lives.

So, putting all these pieces together, and again, just working with private clients on my own, I developed the Psyched Soul Method, which is, it’s based on the MAPS model, however, it also extends into a two month sustainability and recreation period, meaning, I’m a big fan of integration [00:35:00] being a lifelong journey.

It’s not something that happens one or two sessions after a psychedelic experience, but rather it’s a holistic multidimensional model. It’d be integration begins the moment that we begin thinking about ingesting the substance. Then we start arranging, thinking what, you know, do we want to take a mushroom?

Do we want to try ayahuasca? Where should we do it? How much should we take? Oh, this is the time. Maybe I’ll do it with this person. All this is all integration. And then of course there is a day to day practice. So it’s a life, it’s a lifelong thing. So my site soul method is based on an ongoing minimum six month protocol where the clients circle through different themes that are prevalent in the integration individuation process.

And, and study them in depth. And then of course, utilize the medicines. To to bring more awareness, but the medicines are not the highlight their daily [00:36:00] work day to day work Practices are the highlight of the work So it’s basically How can I say this like an ancient technology a mindfulness technology?

You know, the Buddha, you know, this is nothing new. The Buddha said, just show up, sit in stillness, listen to yourself, you know, and we have teachers to remind us how to just like be far removed from, from the constructs of our mind. Just do that every day. And this is the practice. So integration is a mindfulness practice around psychedelics.

And, you know, the, the deeper I get into this world with all the methods I’ve created courses, programs, you know, all the formulas, all these are available for people who feel like. They need it. until they finally discover that this was, it’s not the core of the work. The core of the work is the way that they show up to themselves every single day.

Giancarlo: Yes. Yes. It’s, [00:37:00] it’s, it’s a lifelong process of reconnection with the self. But so do you, do you mind if I make a distinction between And, and of course they’re intertwined, but, you know, usually traditionally we talk about the psychedelic experience, you know, of the two, the two possible outcome. There is, you know, a journey of personal transformation, first, first a personal discovery and then a personal transformation and then a personal growth and, and, and, and.

I can see how the type of integration you just described fits well this model of transcend your trigger, transcend your pain bodies, recognize what is your true personality versus what is a trigger, work on what is your authentic self and make sure that you, you operate through the authentic self. And when the wounded self intervene, it’s Be aware that [00:38:00] now you’re operating, you know, you’re not responding from your authentic self, but you’re reacting from your wounded self.

So this, this integration approach of self discovery is crystal clear. You’re very right to say that it’s not three months, six months is, is, is a lifelong journey. But then the other possible outcome is this idea of you know, myst, mystic state and, and and, you know, other dimension, this idea of encountering with, with, with divinity, with beings, you know, are they from another planet from you know, from From a different dimension you know, are there a project of our imagination or are there are independent sentient beings?

So, I, you know, we interviewed some integration coach and, and that’s a little bit my passion. What would you say to You know, when, when a, when a practitioner comes back from a trip and says, Oh, you know, I was with this [00:39:00] entity, it can be benevolent, can be malevolent, or I, I, I had the discussion with some divinity.

How do you integrate in the Western secular materialistic skeptic paradigm? You know, if you think about it, it’s like almost the opposite of what It’s done traditionally in, in psychotherapy, right? You go to a traditional Western secular materialistic psychotherapist. First of all, they can’t even take your hand.

There is like no, no, no, no touch. Forget, forget about it. You have to stop the therapy to even have getting a coffee. There is no physical hug. There’s no, I mean, there is emotional support more and more, but, you know, there is no talk about mysticism. There’s no talk about divinity. And, and some, and some of your colleagues told me, you know, they say, okay, we offer integration in terms of the personal growth, but the moment there is an [00:40:00] entity or there is a mystical experience, or there’s a transcendental experience, then we refer back to the shaman.

And so, so for me, it’s like, what it, you know, if you think about it, you know, we Western white people go to the Amazon, take these plants from them. We give it to our white Western people and we feel, oh, that’s very good. It make them feeling better and more empowered. And we build an entire multi billion around that.

We medicalize it. But then the moment that this medicine shows another aspect of the personal growth, which is the mystical aspect, which is what has been used for 10, 000 years. We say, Oh, that’s not our responsibility. It doesn’t make any, it doesn’t make any sense. What’s your view on that? 

Shiri: Yeah. And you know what, it’s actually, I didn’t realize that there were integration coaches that would actually like state what you said when it comes to the mystical, they just refer back to the shaman that.

That’s a bit alarming to me, to be honest. I mean, the way that I see it, what is being integrated right now? The spirit [00:41:00] world, the great mystery, the feminine aspect of life is being integrated right now into a very masculine, capitalized capitalistic. Way of being that has induced within us a sense of separation, separation from God, separation from who we are.

We’ve just been completely isolated and individual, like hyper individuated to a point where we’re so far removed from ourselves. We’re all about linear science based about the rational, which means we’ve completely abandoned the natural, wild, earthy, Great mystery. And that’s why ayahuasca is becoming so popular right now, because ayahuasca is the antidote to to our very clear cut medicalized model that has taken over our world.

And you know, it is, we, people that are more working in the integrated, integrative medical models, for example, Gabor Mate, which you’ve stated. For example, [00:42:00] there’s another doctor, I believe he’s. Portuguese. I’m not sure exactly, but his name is Nader Bouto. Okay. He has this medical model that he created.

That is an integrative. He’s a big ayahuasca person. And again, medical doctor, there is also a Dr. Joe to four. Okay. So we do have a few people that understand that all these ailments that we’re experiencing in the West, whatever it is, all the pathologies we called. Mental disease, they’re rooted in spiritual disease, spiritual imbalance.

Physical disease is rooted in spiritual imbalance, so there are people who understand that. And to me, as an integration person, I believe that the greatest role of integration coaches, therapists, again, we are the mediators of worlds. We are the bridge between worlds. We have to be proficient. in understanding both the science and the mystery and be able to communicate between them.

Giancarlo: Yeah, but, but who, you know, [00:43:00] better either said than done to be proficient in intermediate with the spirit world. I mean, how, how, how do we know from the spirit world and can you elaborate on spiritual imbalance? What do you mean by that? I mean, I understand what you mean, but I just wanted you to tell for the client, for the listener.

Shiri: Okay. Let me see how I can say this in a, in a very simple way, you know, just not exactly knowing who the listeners are, but let’s say I’m going to take a very, well, I don’t know if I want to get into an example like that, cause it may be a bit controversial. I’m going to give an example of one of my clients.

Okay. Without naming, of course, anything. Some, I had a client who suffered, who came to me because she experienced, she has fibromyalgia, which is she, as she, she, Explained it the way that she described this disease. She always feels like she has like burning pain all over her body. She’s so, so sensitive.

It’s hard for her to move. It’s hard for her to, to, to sit. Everything is painful. [00:44:00] And you know, all the medications that she’s taken, the, the, and forgive me, I can’t get into too many details. This was years and years ago. I’m just trying to like really keep it bare bones, but pharmaceuticals, doctors that she had, nothing was helping this woman.

She was, I believe in her early 60s and we in our session talked about, you know, where, what is she experiencing in her life? Where are her relationships at? And I feel like relationships are always great indicators. Basically can a person, are they able to be in intimacy with another person? Are they thriving in relationships?

Again, whether it’s close friendships or romantic relationships or with parents or siblings, as the parent, the person able to thrive in relationship, or are they shut down, avoidant, dissociated, triggered, et cetera. And through our conversation. Typically, when we talk about relationships, somehow, well, not somehow, it always, 99.

9 percent of the time, goes back [00:45:00] to early childhood, which is the time that we as, as when we come into the world in early childhood, from age 0 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 6, this is where we create, where we learn how to bond with the world and relate to the world, basically through. Our earliest years, the way that we are able to relate with our parents, if they took care of our needs, if our needs were validated by them, or not validated by them, then that’s how we develop our ability to relate to others, also known in psychology as attachment.

So can we create a healthy attachment or not? So through a discussion like that, I learned that this Person grew basically into a religious cult and you know, went through some things in this religious cult where she went. horrific sexual abuse as a child without protection from the parents. She was violated.[00:46:00] 

And I mean, I don’t know if you, I mean, people can’t see me on camera, but I, I just noticed that even as I was talking, I was kind of like, you know, tightening up and literally felt my skin burning because the person, you know, we can see, you know, through all the, like this conversation and what this person went through.

And, you know, we, she talked about the symbol of fire and how, you know, like something that happened when she was younger, that there was fire. And she also kept talking about how the pain was burning her, right? So there was a lot of symbolism. So just from our conversation, for me, it was very clear that the pain body that she was holding onto, again, that fire pain, because her body has been violated so many times.

Her spirit has been violated so numerous times as a child that literally her body has manifested a psychological condition where she created an armor of fire [00:47:00] protection against other people through the fibromyalgia because she’s been violated so many times. So this is an example of how when her spirit was invaded through a trauma that was not healed.

The body held on to that trauma like the book like the very famous book the body keeps a score the body holds on to Trauma a trauma which is a blocked unresolved energy when the the body doesn’t complete a physical response and then traps they The the energy gets trapped in the body and then manifests through all sorts of physical diseases, physical distortions, physical mental compulsions, et cetera.

So this was maybe a little bit more complicated than I should have thought. 

Giancarlo: No, no, this is, this is very clear. The, the psychosomatic aspect of, of, you know, to what extent psychedelic can definitely, you know, uncover this kind of [00:48:00] trauma and, and, and, and some, some, you know reaction to childhood trauma.

This is clear. I was interested to understand how do you integrate An entity that come and see you during one of these medicine can be benevolent, can be malevolent. How do you integrate that? You have to change your complete worldview, right? Sometimes someone, someone told me, you know, like everybody talks about integration, but it’s like you take the fling stone from the caveman, right?

And, and you take them. 

Shiri: I think it really, it depends on, you know, I think the example that’s being shared, okay, there’s an entity and how can a person integrate that. I would, you know, the way that I would approach it is, okay, who is this person and what is their story? What is it? Yeah. What are they coming into the ceremony with?

Yeah. What are their conditions? What is their family like? Are they in a crisis? What’s their job? Do they have a physical condition? Have they do they have any interest in the spiritual world? Where, [00:49:00] where is how did they grow up as children? Basically, you know, a person is not isolated from their environment and neither is.

Any type of psychedelic insight, right? So the way that I see it, all psychedelic insights being be a deities, be it memories, be it other dimensions, be it like a new wisdom that comes through. They all exist in an environment and it’s, you can’t just take an insight. Verbatim or literally and try to apply it to the person.

You have to look at the ecosystem around the insight and the ecosystem of the person. And see how they relate to one another. For example, there could be two people sitting in the same ceremony, right? One person sees a serpent coming at them and the snake looks at them and the person looks at them and the snake is about to eat them and the person is just terrified and passes out because they’re mortified that the snake is about to eat them, whereas the other person would see the same snake sees [00:50:00] that the snake is about to eat them and they would jump into the mouth of the snake.

Right? And it’s this exact same vision, but two completely different ways of relating. And the root of this relationship is where the person is rooted or not rooted. 

Giancarlo: But so these entities, they are not independents in your opinion. Nobody knows. We are speculating, of course. They’re not independent sentient beings.

They are, they are, they are a projection of our psyche. 

Shiri: I think, I think it’s, well now, okay. I think, I think it’s both and okay, I think they are projections of the psyche from what, what the person’s Dharma, where it leads them to go and what they’re interested in. And without, yes, absolutely there are independent entities, but it’s the way that we each and every single one of us relates to these entities.

And it’s through these relationships as how we can study ourselves and understand ourselves. And [00:51:00] understand how to integrate these concepts. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. 

Shiri: The relationship is, is the core of integration, not the insight and actually not even the person. It’s the context. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. It’s difficult, right? We don’t know much about that.

You know, every tribes have their own interpretation. 

Shiri: Sure. But I, you know, I do believe that there are, again, there are ways, there are techniques and it has to be, for me, again, this is like. How I’ve come to understand integration and integration is all about the, again, the relationships and without understanding the relationships, we can just interpret an insight.

Giancarlo: Of course. You know, 

Shiri: like Carl Jung did. It’s not, there’s a collective symbolism, which we can take into consideration. But it doesn’t mean that it’s true for every single person. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. 

Shiri: And I feel like, again, that’s why that, that showing up every day, whatever it is, to action, you can choose to show up to your psychedelic ceremony every day, or you can choose to wake up every day and see [00:52:00] that, you know, these entities are already here.

They’re already here. Yeah, 

Giancarlo: yeah, yeah, 

Shiri: yeah, 

Giancarlo: the, the, the, the the Buddhist, the Tibetan monk, the Lama, they see entries all the time. 

Shiri: Correct. So if you’re aware of them, you know, the gift of psychedelics is that they make us aware. But it’s up to us as humans, and this is what makes us different from animals.

You know, we have that intelligence and willpower, and it’s up to us as humans to claim that willpower, the power of choice. And choose how we want, if we want to interact with this information and how we want to interact with this information and it’s through that decision that we can understand and integrate ourselves into the best version of human that we can be.

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah. It’s fascinating territory, right? But don’t you think that, you know, some of like the, you know, dream work that Young has done or other don’t you think we Western people, now that we are [00:53:00] integrating this medicine into the medical system and, and, and, and other worldly material will appear. Mm 

Speaker: hmm.

Giancarlo: I don’t still feel that there is a, a, a protocol. I mean, you know, you go and do the Iboga. With the, with the Bwiti, they have a very clear cosmovision of what you see. They’re not interested on how you feel, they ask you, you know, they want to see color, they want to see shape, they have an interpretation for the red triangle and the green circle, and the Shibibo, they have their own cosmovision, and the boa, and the eagle, and, and, and we feel that, what about us?

You know, I, sometimes I feel maybe we should have some theologian or some, you know, I, I, it just, just my, my, my opinion, you know, it’s exciting is a, is a, is an industry, is a young industry, is an industry in development and thanks to people like you, we are, you know, trying to harness the power of this medicine it’s just very fascinating.

Shiri: It is fascinating. And I, I think that the more, I think [00:54:00] again, it’s, it’s all culture dependent, right? I don’t think we’ve reached a new peak. By any means and when I say peak, you know, I feel like Michael Pollan with his book, How to Change Your Mind, definitely created an upsurge in the collective of this new culture that we create, that we are creating right now in terms of the third wave of, of psychedelic, of the psychedelic movement.

I feel like the media is waking up. I feel like there will be a point where it just like reaches some type of a saturation. 

Giancarlo: But don’t you think that this third wave is, is the medicalization, is the neurosurg, is the neuro, the neurochemistry, the what’s happening in the brain? The fourth? I mean, we are gonna have to integrate this on a spiritual level,

Shiri: I think it is for the people who need that, and I think people will need that. And I agree. I do think that, again, going back to what we said earlier. What wants to be integrated? It’s not the medicines. It’s a spirit world. 

Speaker: And 

Shiri: I feel like [00:55:00] You know, because of, of the capitalistic systems that again, are trying to take over exactly culture, that facet of the culture, they will miss out on that.

And it’s going to end up, you know, it 

Giancarlo: is, it is, it is already missing it. 

Shiri: And with that, there are many people in our culture that, you know, like people like myself and people that have been in the field may way longer than I have. And they’re creating amazing things that. You know, I feel like we are trying to bring a more alternative, counter cultural, you know, try to, again, integrate the wisdom of the forest with the medical model.

You know, you can’t just isolate the molecules. I’ve heard, I’ve heard of companies wanting to isolate the molecules to eliminate bad trips. 

Giancarlo: No, but they’re doing it already. They’re already doing it. 

Shiri: No, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. And I feel like in that regard, it’s like ster sterilization of the medicine.

I feel like that’s going to end up backfiring. 

Giancarlo: No, but it’s, they’re missing, they’re missing the [00:56:00] most interesting part of this experience. Psychedelic is not a product. It’s not a pill is a, is a. It’s a way of thinking, it’s a way of thinking, it’s a cosmology. You ask a corgi about the river and he says, this is my brother, it’s not a metaphor.

They really believe that there is. So, you know, rather than taking this opportunity of using the states to, and I don’t want to be like all negative, I mean, I super welcome this revolution and the renaissance. I’m just encouraging people to look not just at the effect, but at the. ontology behind it. The ontology of the medicine is an ontology of connection with nature, where plants speak and animals speak and the mountain on a subatomic level is connected to all this is an animistic religion with everything is connected.

And that’s exactly the kind of awareness we need to start using. Being more aware about the [00:57:00] impact of nature of human affairs. And I, I just feel that, you know, it’s, I don’t hear that enough. You know, my friend that I see years, they are making great work and, and on, on, on. On, on this idea of the new ontology, you know, the psychedelic renaissance is linked to a different way to see us and the space.

You know, I understand the old you know, Newtonian Cartesian understanding of the cosmo being a big gigantic clock, mechanic clock. We needed that kind of rational, rationalism. And, you know, and, and, and, you know, I think therefore I am because we didn’t want to get away from the horror of the middle age, but then the next evolution of human thinking is an evolution is, is a thinking of, of, of, of, of connection with the natural world.

And I don’t hear people talking about that enough, but anyhow, that’s just my quick rant. Sorry. [00:58:00] Aye. 

Shiri: And I completely understand and I feel like really what you’re saying is you’re really repeating or reiterating the message that the native people have known all along and the traditions that they’re trying to preserve.

Speaker: Exactly. You know, 

Shiri: that was a psychedelic science. One of the most powerful things I heard was from a young Indigenous woman who said, you know, we have, like, she was basically pointing the finger of how a lot of us have a tendency to say, we are the medicine. We are the medicine. Right. And she said, well, actually we are not the medicine.

It’s the relationship, the community, that’s the medicine. It’s the fact that we are learning to return. To be with other people, to sit in the circle together, and through that sitting in the circle together, this is how we heal. So the medicine are the ones that are basically pulling us into that space, but they’re not the medicine.

It’s the, again, the relating, the healthy [00:59:00] relating, the sitting together, where there are no hierarchies, there are no certifications. There are no, you know, authorities or medical models or certifying bodies or whatever. We’re all sitting in the same or holding hands. We’re all, there’s one kind, the humankind, and that’s the medicine.

And, you know, for me as a person that’s been operating in the field and also specifically, you know, I want to name, you asked me in the, before we got on the call, like if there’s anything I want to talk about, there is something I want to talk about. You know, I’ve, I’ve founded five psychedelic harm reduction organizations.

As mentioned, you know, a person that uses psychedelics, I wanted to share what I knew, what I learned in real time. People asked to learn from me. I created what they, you know, what the best products I could, the best services I could. To support their needs. One of them being the first integration coaching certification that was one year long.

I think I was the first one in the world that created something [01:00:00] like that to that, like comprehension. This was in January, 2020. And in the last year alone. Year and a half, I think I learned of at least five, six or seven other organizations that created coaching certification schools. And, you know, I feel like in some way, that’s like a natural progression of the culture.

And in some ways, you know, the more that I get into the medicine path, the more I see, you know, the whole idea of certification is something that I’ve always questioned, like, how is this contributing to the culture? What am I contributing as a creator? You know, when I. For me, training is important, but is this basically again, a replica of again, creating authority, creating gatekeeping.

I’ve always thought about these things. Like how is this helping or not helping? And I’ve basically come to an understanding from the get go that I still have [01:01:00] had this under, I had this like understanding when I was holding no cost circles in Los Angeles years ago. That basically, like, all I, I am interested in doing is providing the information, giving the information to the people so they can learn how to take care of themselves.

And you know, I finally, after three and a half years of having the school, I decided that I, you know, I don’t want to contribute to this anymore. I want to create something different that again, will just be more of like an open resource and just provide the information and to, again, to go back to creating communities.

Because inflammation, again, it’s all the methods, the protocols, like we talked about earlier, it’s just to help you people feel safe. You know, oh, there’s a method. Oh, there’s a protocol. But then they understand again, then again, the medicine, like you say, it’s the connection. So I’m more interested in focusing on that and less on the method.

So that’s kind of where I’m headed now in terms of my service. 

Giancarlo: Thank you. [01:02:00] Thank you, Sheri. We, we just passed an hour. But so you did mention a little bit where you’re going, but, so if you had to think about yourself in 10, 20 years, where would, where would, where would you like to be? . 

Shiri: I know exactly where I’m gonna be.

Nice. Tell us. Yeah. I’m a creative educator. I’ve been doing creative education in different formats for 25 years, and specifically. And the psychedelic world for about eight years. But years ago I was a preschool teacher. I was, you know, a makeup artist training other people how to feel more beautiful.

I was doing all sorts of things. And I came to an understanding. I’ve invested so many years and again, helping people, quote unquote, fix themselves, helping adults release all their trauma, release all the conditioning. Basically undo all the damage that has been acute accrued for decades. And I had an epiphany on mushrooms a few months ago that.

Instead of putting in so much [01:03:00] effort, a multi billion dollar industry that wants to fix people, I’m going to go straight back to the children and help them retain what they already know. 

Speaker: And 

Shiri: basically, and we know I’m interested in collapsing the time. It takes all of us as a planet to wake up. So is it, you know, let people grow up and be, you know, dysfunctional adults, or just go back to the kids and just help them remember how whole they are from the get go and what an influence would that make on the planet?

You know, they grew up in three decades, three generations. We’re going to have a whole new planet, basically. So I am interested in basically taking everything I’ve learned in the conscious education space and, of course, everything I’ve learned before and creating a new conscious education modality for children.

And, of course, you know, to, to, to include. You know, tools that are relevant for these times for the transformation. We’re going through with a digital age that we’re in. You know, a I commerce, you know, all these returning to nature, growing [01:04:00] food, taking care of the planet, just taking all these elements that we need to help us prepare as we move into a new earth.

So That’s where I see myself going. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Amazing. Listen, thank you so much for your work. It’s so important. But so if people are interested that, you know, want to become a facilitator or interesting what you’re doing, where they can find you, we’ll put it, we’ll put it on the show notes. 

Shiri: Thank you.

Yeah. My website is psychedsoul. com. I am very much focused on supporting women and creating a female sisterhood. And again, also, as mentioned, I’m creating a new service specifically that’s meant to provide people all the information they need to support themselves and support other people and less hierarchical way.

You can find a lot of also free resources online, a lot of free guides and downloads. You’re welcome to grab anything that can support your journey. And thank you so much for the opportunity to share. 

Giancarlo: Thank you. Thank you for being here. I just want to credit Mihai [01:05:00] Love who recommend, who introduced each other and recommended we speak.

He started a beautiful organization called Power. Life integrating new technology, ancient technology. I would recommend to check them out, Power. Life and. We’ll speak. I’ll ping you in next year. We’ll, we’ll continue and see where you are at next year. Thank you for your time. 

Shiri: Thank you so much.

Have a beautiful, beautiful day. You 

Giancarlo: too. Thank you. Thank you.