51: Tanya Kazeminy on Sexual Evolution and Teaching Self-love

Tkandlove
Gasp
IG – tkandlove
IG – Gasp

Gabor Maté
Margot Anand
Sarah Powers
Adiya Shanti – Buddhism
ISTA
Amanda Fielding
I Am My Own Laboratory
Raffaello Manacorda
2012 Time For Change
Monogamish 

Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome to this new episode of the Manco TV podcast today. I’m very excited to have Tanya Kazemini We’re gonna start with a quote from Tanya Tanya says I wholeheartedly believe that the fastest way to heal in all dimensions of our life is to work with our Sexuality this is where our most powerful life force resides and yet It’s the least examined, so true.

Tanya published Gasp, Sexual Healing in 2019. [00:01:00] She’s a teacher, a writer, and a speaker. She teaches her sexual evolution workshop around the world. Tanya works with sexuality for one pure reason, to create more love in the world by making more love. Her deepest purpose is to create love and connection in small ways and big ways.

Thank you very much for being here. 

Tanya: Thank you. 

Giancarlo: So Mangusa Productions started as a production company. We started with 2012 Time for Change, based on this idea that global transformation comes from personal transformation. Then we produced a documentary called Monogamish, on ethical non monogamy.

And through that, through the speakers, we were directed through some sex positive people and organization, and then there was some common area with the, with the, with the tantra world and then we’ve been working on the production of a documentary called sex to spirit with all the tantra teachers.

And then sexuality has become a [00:02:00] big interest of mango TV for all the reason you mentioned on your, on your bio. So, so You know, as usual, we like to have a little bit this, you know, we are interested in transformation in cathartic moment in exploring why people might one day completely change their life and decide to dedicate their life to others, maybe through esoteric practice, you know, we cover very closely psychedelic and in general, non ordinary state of consciousness for healing and growth.

And of course, sexuality Is the, you know, the queen of non ordinary state for growth, healing and pleasure, which also we feel is very important and desire that for all the reasons that we’re going to see, we don’t examine, as you say, so why don’t you give us a little bit of the biographical Information about, you know, where did you grow up, what kind of culture, what was maybe even your evolution, personal evolution [00:03:00] with sexuality, and we’ll start from there if you don’t mind.

Tanya: I was born in London to an English mother and an Iranian father. And shortly after I was born, we moved to Minnesota. In the States. And so I grew up in Minnesota. 

Giancarlo: Wow, like my wife. 

Tanya: Yeah, I know. Exactly. I know. That’s what we met over. I was like, Oh, a Midwesterner. 

Giancarlo: Well, Ibiza. 

Tanya: Right? Exactly. I mean, that was what I was like, we kind of high fived.

Like, what a transition to make it out of the sticks and into this beautiful world. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. 

Tanya: And then I went to live in Iran. Our family, my dad was, was, was moved to Iran. When I was nine and we lived there until I was like eleven and a half and then the revolution happened and we moved back to Minnesota.

And in your question that you sent me before before we started, you just said simply like where was the point that I, I lost myself or [00:04:00] when was the point that I found myself was how I interpreted your question. And I, I was really thinking that, I think that that’s when I lost myself. And I think that’s when so many of us lose ourselves, is in that really sweet space of moving into being a teenager.

And for me, I’d, I’d gone to, I’d lived in Tehran and, and we traveled the world and, and my, my, my perspective, my view of, of possibility had become enormous. And then I, I moved back into, we moved back to Minnesota, and we lived in like, basically a small farming town, where no one even had a passport, and no one was interested in having a passport.

They didn’t even leave the state, let alone the country. So, that was the point where I had to kind of, in order to fit into that space, I had to make myself really, really small. And I did. I did, and I did such a good job, that it wasn’t for maybe Something more like 30 [00:05:00] years that I started to come out of that and realize that I had squished myself up into this tiny little ball and that that wasn’t the truth of who I am.

I know I’ve kind of gone in a strange direction. Are you happy with the direction I’m moving in? Very happy. Okay, just checking. And I resonate 

Giancarlo: with, and I resonate with what you said about that maybe, you know, we lose our authenticity maybe as teenagers, right? 

Tanya: I think that’s the point where we We really start to drink the Kool Aid on like this, this, the, the social conditioning really kicks in.

And interestingly, it’s like, I mean, not at 11, but in our teenage years when we really start to activate sexually as well. So it’s an interesting dichotomy, like an interesting meeting point of, of two forces. But I, I, I witnessed that. I know you have a son and you’ll, you’ll, there’s just a point where the.

The innocence of childhood, like the certainty of knowing who you are. [00:06:00] When we’re kids, you watch little girls, you watch little boys, they know who they are. Like, little girls are little sass pants. Like, they are strong and they are powerful and they, like, they, they know their power. And then when you get into the space of teenage dom, it’s like this massive shift, the hormonal shift, that like, like, I read a book about it, and it’s the time in our lives when we are experiencing the most physical psychological change.

And at that point, we kind of lose touch with our truth, and we start to be what society has instructed us to be. 

Giancarlo: If your parents don’t help. 

Tanya: Honestly, I, I think that the forces of society are so strong. I mean, I’m, I’m a, I’m a great mother. Like, you know, I’m a great mother. And I watched my kids go through this.

And I was like, you know, I was there, I was present. I was, I was, you know, ready to fight the battle to hold them in, in the truth of themselves, but I watched them drop. [00:07:00] And so I think it, I think that, that, that, that, I’m sure there are places where this doesn’t happen, of course, in there, but I don’t meet many people that have, have, have known the truth of themselves through their whole life.

Do you? 

Giancarlo: That’s a good question. So I want to mention Gabor Mate. Mm-hmm . It says that there is two major. tension or not tension. There’s two major desire in life. There is or even need the need for attachment and a need for authenticity. Because, you know, the attachment because, you know, as a, as a human being, we’re not independent the first few years and we need the authenticity evolutionary to, you know, to feel the saber to tiger in the, in the, in the Savannah, not be eaten.

And he says that what happened probably around. Pre puberty where, you know, the parents might be distracted and the kids, in order to [00:08:00] get the attachment back, they lose their authenticity. That’s exactly what happened to me. You know, my father was not interested to be a father. It was like dashing around the world.

I pretend to be what he wanted me to be to get his attachment back. So I feel that, you know, in that when the force of society start to put the pressure, as you said, that’s the job of the parents to create the emotional support saying. Those four to compensate those forces that pressurize in one direction with forces of love and reassure men and positive reinforcement that most people don’t have.

That’s why they succumb to the force of society. But did they meet anybody that navigated that? You know, everybody’s more or less traumatized, especially the In Ibiza, especially in this 

Tanya: podcast, 

Giancarlo: so I don’t know if anybody has navigated. I mean, I, I know people that had really loving [00:09:00] present parents and, and and he chose in the choice they made in, in the marriage, in the wife, the husband they choose.

So, yeah, there is hope for good education. 

Tanya (2): Oh, of course, there’s always hope, but I’m not sure it’s not part of the process of, of, of humaning, 

Speaker 6: you 

Tanya: know, and, and when you said that about about Dr. Gabor Mate what I really love when he speaks about is attunement. So you talked about your father, like his absence at that time, at that, at that point in your life, but.

It was probably always like that and you were probably being molded into like, you know, you were probably Seeking even harder his approval when you were younger because you were more dependent on his On the attachment. 

Speaker 6: Approval. Yeah. 

Tanya: Yeah, because like that was where safety lies. But yeah, I love the notion I was just at Harvest in London and I’m going to call him Gabor because that’s how he [00:10:00] introduced myself to him.

He said, he introduced himself to me and I was like super fangirling. I had lunch with him and I was just like, Oh my God. But he talked about attunement and I thought that was the most, like, that was so specific to me. This idea that your parents can, can love you hard and be amazing, but that they, they, they don’t recognize the truth of who you are and if they don’t, and I think that.

They, if they don’t acknowledge who, who you are to yourself, but they acknowledge who you are to them, kind of, am I making sense? Yeah. That, that, that creates like tremendous stress inside a child because, and so you, you work as a child to find the meeting point of who you are and who they think you are.

Yeah. But that notion of attunement was so fascinating to me that it can be so confusing, your parents can be so incredibly loving, but they don’t actually see who you are. And that that’s like a really big breaking point for me. I recognize that very clearly. Like [00:11:00] my parents are incredibly loving. I don’t think they understood my wildness in many ways.

Like my kind of you know, I’m a super mystical creature. Like I would have been really like realmy and like traveling in my imagination and my dreams, I would have had contact with other. beings in other lives. I would be in that space. And I think it’s part of the parents. They feel it’s their job to condition you like, God, we can’t send her out into the world like this.

Like, you know, we need to help her figure out how to navigate. 

Giancarlo: So you felt your parents were not so much in attunement and, and because of the force of society in Minnesota, you felt Like make yourself small. 

Tanya (2): Yeah, I literally felt like I, we lived in Minnesota, we moved to Tehran, like life exploded into possibility.

Smells, colors, countries, like flavors, wow. And then we suddenly went back to Minnesota and it was like trying to put myself back in the clothes from three years ago, like [00:12:00] literally trying to squish myself into a winter jumper which doesn’t fit me anymore. And I think that that process was, I was very determined to do it.

I was like, if I’m going to be here and I’m going to make friends, I have to fit in. And that involves being what everybody else is. And I did it so well. I did it so well that I completely lost touch with myself until, gosh, in my forties. Oh, really? 

Giancarlo: Yeah. But how long were you living in Minnesota for? 

Tanya (2): Oh, I left Minnesota when I was

I don’t know, 

Giancarlo: more or less 20 something like that. And where did you go? 

Tanya (2): London. 

Giancarlo: And so that was a different story though. There was different societal pressure. 

Tanya (2): Completely. Completely. But again, it was this thing about like, I just had the psychology of fitting in. Okay. So now I’m going to fit in here and I’m, and, and it was like my, my being American was an embarrassment, you know, like it didn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t [00:13:00] fit with, with what people valued.

So it was just, my story of life has always been, I’ve been like a really good chameleon, which is a wonderful quality to have, but it also is like I don’t know, I just was really lost to myself. Yeah, yeah. Me too. I resonate with 

Giancarlo: chameleon, chameleon. 

Tanya (2): And it’s like a super good skill. I, I, it’s, it’s an incredible, it’s like a superpower.

Like I can, you know, morph myself into different situations and I’m so good at it. That I convinced myself. 

Giancarlo: So what were you doing professionally in London in your 20s? 

Tanya (2): Oh gosh, I’ve had a lot of careers. 

Giancarlo: Here and there. 

Tanya (2): I, I worked as a buyer at Harrods. Huh. I worked in an advertising agency and then I.

Giancarlo: So nothing, nothing sexually related. No, no, 

Tanya (2): no, no. And then I worked in skin care. So then I, I, I built a skin care business with three of my best friends. Hmm. And, so, and that, and through the course of the skin care, I started to write again. So I was writing all the copy, writing all the press releases, [00:14:00] writing the like, the essence of the, of the brand.

And it was kind of there that I started to like, find my voice again. It was interesting. Because essentially I think like, I’m a writer, I love writing, I love words, I absolutely love words. Like words are my jam man. Like I just. It’s my deepest pleasure when a word comes towards me that works or when I put a sentence together.

I read a sentence that just takes me apart. 

Giancarlo: Nice. You should come to the creative writing of Alexia. 

Tanya (2): I have. I have. It’s beautiful. 

Giancarlo: But so tell me, so how did you get interested in sexuality?

Tanya (2): It was a story of, I wonder if you relate to this, like sometimes I think we get these kind of universal assignments, right? I, I, I. I was divorced from a 20 year marriage, I divorced from a 20 year marriage. Is that the right con? Is that right? Something in that space. And I, I had this [00:15:00] deep recognition.

Like, that was my, that was my return home to myself. I mean, it started before the divorce because I had to build up my It took a long time to get to the point where I walked out the door. And So, and when I did, I really questioned this idea of like, you know, we make these contracts and we say we’ll be together forever and, and, and it was like this dissolution of that knowing and recognizing that the only person that I was going to be with forever was myself.

And I literally was like, I better get good with me. And so I, I just. I devoted my whatever, whatever time that I wasn’t like on the floor in a ball crying was really turning back towards myself and recognizing the incredible opportunity of transformation in that space. And 

Giancarlo: in which space? 

Tanya: In the space of.

Giancarlo: Self inquiry. 

Tanya: In the space of dissolution, like my life [00:16:00] had just dissolved, you know, like I have my children, I, I have my work, I, I was completely like, you know, my, my, my devotion to my kids was first and foremost, but right underneath that was my devotion to myself and the discovery of the truth of me and to come into a different relationship with myself.

Literally, I was like, I have no idea who I am. I don’t know. And I would think, like, I wonder how tall I would stand if I stood up straight, you know? 

Giancarlo: So the catalyst for this self inquiry was the divorce. 

Tanya: Yeah, yeah. It was such a precious gift. Like, such a precious gift. 

Giancarlo: I see. And so, okay, I’m, I think I’m curious to know how 

Tanya (2): you want to get back to the sexuality.

I would. 

Giancarlo: Honestly, I’ll tell you the truth. I’m a little bit not I’m a little bit resistant to ask you how was your sexual life in your marriage? Because I feel is a bit indiscreet, but, but yeah. Okay. That is 

Tanya (2): indiscreet and it kind of has nothing to do with [00:17:00] anything. I mean, I, I think that, I think that I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m a, I’m a Persian lineage, you know, like we are powerful sexual beings, like that’s part of the line, that’s, you look at what’s happening in Iran, it’s because of the fear of the, of the depth of that, of that, of that of that power, you know, within the women and within the men, but especially I think within the women.

So let me just, I’m going to, I’m going to carry on with the story. So at that time, in that space of transformation and dissolution and discovery of who I am, I started to get these kind of downloads on things that I was supposed to be doing. And I didn’t have the languaging for that then, I didn’t understand that that what was what was happening, but looking back, I can see very clearly.

And the first download was about was about making films about water. So I had begun that as a that’s a side story and we’ll talk about that and maybe another time, but I, I received this really powerful like download about writing a book about, [00:18:00] of erotica. 

Giancarlo: Hmm. Auto erotica. No, writing a book about 

Tanya (2): of erotica erotica, and it was one of those things which like takes you over the idea and you’re like, yes, yes, yes, I’ll do it this way.

I’ll do this. I’ll bring in some other authors and we’ll create something and it was like this like obsession for two weeks. And then and then reality came in really hard. And you’re like, you’re a mother of two children. Like, you can’t be writing a book about erotica. You’re, your father is Iranian.

You’re, you know, you, you, you come from a very conservative lineage. 

I’m a super private person. Like, I’m not going to write a book about erotica. Like, forget about it. And so I, I stopped. And then this book kept knocking on my door and knocking on my door and knocking on my door until finally in 2018 I was so annoyed by the knocking.

I was like, okay fine. I’ll do it 

Giancarlo: But can I ask you, this download that you said, you know, universal or cosmic download, they were like coming through any [00:19:00] specific practice, through dream work, through meditation, were you, how were you catalyzing them? 

Tanya (2): They just like land like an obsession, like an idea would come into my head, I’d become obsessed with it for like a couple of weeks, I couldn’t, like everything was in relation to that idea.

I’m sure you, I’m sure you’ve had, probably this podcast was that for you, you know, like these kind of like, ah, like it’s sort of bigger than me. And I would like a lot of them, I would park for a period of time and I would think they would have gone away, but they kept coming back. And now I kind of see like, I mean, I can see so clearly this line.

So, so in 2018 I said, okay, fine, I’ll, I’ll create this book and so gasp. Was a book that was created within a year. It was at the printing press in a year once I like took the contract and I was like, you know, 

Speaker 7: wrote down what I was gonna do. So GASP stands for something? GASP is ah! Ah, GASP, ah, [00:20:00] GASP, ah.

Giancarlo: Interesting. 

Tanya (2): And, and in the beginning the book had this whole like I just entered into. The realm of dating and, and, and I was like back in the world of, of, of, of sex, you know? And I was just watching how disconnected it is. Really watching how disconnected it is, how, how I, I, I love the idea that it’s so friction based and I wanted to create a book which was non friction and, and the book was So the book, the beginning purpose of the book was an invitation into connected sex because it was like a like some kind of a healing solution for the addiction to porn, the disconnection, the way that people are moving through the world, the hookups on the tinder hookups, like all of those things I think are really damaging to our soul.

It’s because [00:21:00] It’s like back to we were talking about regenerative farming, it’s monocropping, you know, like we’re, we’re approaching sex from one dimension and sex is such a multi but so biodiverse. So when we, when we, I was just watching the like the pain that I think it causes in people when they don’t allow connection, when there’s terrified of connection, we’re supposed to connect, you know, like, this is where love lives.

And. When we stay in that space of very pornish behavior as a, as a, as an every, as an every meal, you know, finally pornish behavior, like to have like disconnected sex, pornish sex. It’s like, that’s fine on a, you know, like on a Tuesday night, but if you’re having that every single night for your, for your meal, like you’re not, it’s not nutritionally sound.

It’s not, you’re not, it’s not healthy for us as humans and for For love, it’s not healthy for love. So the beginning of Gasp was about that. And Gasp has been written by 20 different [00:22:00] writers. There’s 30 different artists which have contributed. The book is primarily anonymous, which was one of the conditions my kids said to me.

Like, they’re like, okay, fine, mom, you want to do this? Like, we get it. We support you. But, but can you be, make it anonymous or it’s total social suicide for us at school. And I was like, gotcha. No problem. So. It was an anonymous series of stories and within the book are teachings as well. Let 

Giancarlo: me ask you, let me ask you to elaborate a little bit on you know, disconnected sex.

You mentioned porn, you mentioned the dating Tinder. What is why can you elaborate what, what does it mean disconnected sex? 

Tanya (2): I think it. I feel that people are afraid to bring themselves into, into the room. They’re afraid to show the truth of who they are. And so they’re presenting constantly, they’re presenting this form that they [00:23:00] think will be acceptable.

Back to the acceptance and the, as a teenager, you know, exactly. It’s the same thing. Like, were I to show that myself, like my, my innocence, my vulnerability, my hungers, my kink, my whatever, you know, were I to show my heart, 

Speaker 6: yeah. 

Tanya (2): And, and that was rejected. It’s too much to bear and therefore I will present this, this pumped up version of myself.

And, and further, I don’t have a lot of education on what, I mean, there’s That’s a long conversation because I think we’ve been held out of, we’ve, we’ve been Sex is so powerful. Our sexuality is so powerful. When we really connect to this force that lives inside of us, we don’t need religion. I can connect to God directly.

I don’t need, I don’t need a religion to tell me [00:24:00] what God is saying. I can hear what God is saying through my body, through the intersection of our bodies, in my self practice, in a practice with another human. I can feel that. And so, The powers that be, the management as it were, is, has been very rigorous in holding us out of that space of, of the possibility of, of our own internal miraculous combustion sexuality power.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So 

Giancarlo: the church has weaponized the concept desire to control us for sure. 

Tanya (2): And, yeah, I, yeah, for sure. I, I mean, religion is one dimension, but it goes in a lot of other dimensions as well. But I think primarily it probably comes from church first. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah. Margot Anand says that all religion, all belief, all school of thought, all philosophy, they don’t go below the waist.

They say don’t even, they don’t even [00:25:00] look, they say it’s too dangerous, except Tantra. And, and I remember this tantra practitioner was telling me that he was mentioning a clinical trial research that I never find, to be honest, that a peak orgasm, which means, you know, like clitoridion for her and, and, and, you know, peak like fast for him.

Cause the drop in three neurotransmitter, dopamine, oxytocin and lactose. So the oxytocin goes down, so you feel disconnected with the partner is the opposite of, you know, MDMA where oxytocin goes up, dopamine goes down, so you don’t feel good about yourself. And so with this drop. that doesn’t foster deeper connection.

You know, he says he was designed more for the man to spread the semen for evolutionary purpose, blah, blah, blah. On the other hand, a full body orgasm increase dopamine and oxytocin. So you feel more connected with the [00:26:00] other person. You feel better by yourself. And, and teacher was saying, you know, if you want to have a long term committed monogamous relationship, you better learn to have full, full body organs, because otherwise it’s going to be hard.

And yeah, we’re working on it.

So maybe that’s what disconnected sense is. It’s the most friction, localized. 

Tanya (2): When you said it causes a drop in dopamine and oxytocin and you don’t feel good about yourself. To me, I just heard shame. Yeah, exactly. You know, like this whole The marriage of, of, you know, like the deepest marriage we hold is the marriage of sexuality and shame.

Yeah. And 

Speaker 5: So true. 

Tanya (2): And I, I, I also, what I, so fast forward, through the process of the [00:27:00] book, and the, the teachings were all my writings, and, and when the book came out, you know, it was very practical. Like, I, I, I was like, I, I, I see where the book is going to go. I see, like, The book is beautiful. I don’t know if I should have brought you one.

I, I, the book is incredible. The book, like it hums with love, like it hums with love. It’s a beautiful book, but it also, it has so much integrity and. The book came out, you know, at a certain point, you know, I talked to my parents about this and, and, and my dad literally said, like, you’re ruining our family name.

And so, I mean, the, which I, I understand. I understand. I understand why he would say that. I, I understand. For me, the thing was, the book needed to be successful because I had gone so far out on the vulnerability limb in creating this. Like, I couldn’t even believe, now, even now, I can’t believe I was brave enough to do it.

So that’s what I mean about this universal mission. Like it was, 

Giancarlo: there was a lot of [00:28:00] autobiographical material. 

Tanya (2): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, of course you’re writing erotica, it’s like, you know, whether, whether it happened or it didn’t happen, it’s, it’s from like, you know, your most vulnerable precious places. But the book came out.

And like, it was like nothing happened, like nothing happened, like it was just like tumbleweed rolling across the website. And I was like, Jesus Christ, like I’ve done all this, like, ah, what do I, what do I do? Like I’m, I’m a business woman. I’m really good at marketing. I’m really good at building brands. I was like, okay, fine.

Kick into that space. And part of what I realized was like the way that the book would become known as if I started to talk. And so I began to teach. And I began to teach the things that I had written in the book and 

Giancarlo: Without a formal training. 

Tanya (2): I mean, I’ve been a teacher for years. I have many, many, many different trainings.

You know, I’m a meditation teacher. I’m a yoga [00:29:00] teacher. I’m, I studied psychology at university. I, I, I have been, you know, within my business, I was the trainer. I did the, all the teaching. So teaching has been. It’s just, it’s just like these things, like I didn’t really recognize that was happening, but there was this, this, this, this current through my life.

When we look back at our lives, we can see, Oh yeah, that, that was always the way. Oh yeah. I was always writing. Words were always my jam. Like, Oh, I see. And then, and then this, you know, I used to train for my, my business, our skincare business, I trained 200 people at a time. Like I had to be engaging, I had to learn how to, how to teach people about our products in a way that enthused them to sell them.

So these like different practices, funny, these funny things, and they kind of come together into a certain space. So I began teaching and. The more I teach, the more I recognize the importance of the teaching, I become so much more [00:30:00] committed to this work because I see how much brokenness there is in the world.

And,

and it’s just, it’s such important work and, and how I, it took me a long time to give myself permission to take this seat, but I said, I, I taught, you know, like, Primarily I was doing readings and stuff. It was like, it wasn’t front facing I teach about sexuality. That took me a really long time before I came to trust, I came to trust my safety enough.

Like, I recognize that maybe the most important thing in this space is my capacity to be loving and my capacity to be safe. And I really know that about myself. So I can step into a space and I know that whoever’s in front of me is safe with me. And I think [00:31:00] that’s crucial because there is so much unsafety in the space of sexuality.

In our lives, in our history, in our lineage, in, in, in the world. You know, like, it’s a, it’s a beautiful landscape to open out the teaching of sexuality. But it’s also a space where There’s gonna be a lot of kind of murky, shady characters, ground area that people are working within. You’ve probably have some stories.

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know in like psychedelic scene, I mean when there is power there is abuse, right? But do you mind me Asking how, how did you go about starting the teaching career? It just started just on the website or you start doing workshop and who were your teachers in a way?

Your inspiration, your [00:32:00] cultural reference, which, which angle did you approach this sexual teaching? Can you tell me a little bit about the teaching? 

Tanya (2): I studied, I studied a lot, like my, I think my, my core teacher, overall teacher would be a man called Adyashanti. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him, Zen Buddhist.

I think he’s actually been the, the, the human on this planet who has led me to like the deepest realizations of myself. So I, I have like a long background in Buddhism, which I wouldn’t ever presume to say I’m an expert at because it’s a, it’s a, an enormous philosophy, but it’s really instructed my worldview and my internal view.

Like I, I orient a lot. Within that space. I’ve had some really amazing teachers like my, you know, I did 500 hour yoga teacher training with a woman called Sarah Powers and where she teaches [00:33:00] from is the intersection of yoga psychology and Buddhism. Oh, wow. 

Giancarlo: So But what does Buddhism and Zen and Adyashanti has to say about sexuality?

It’s, it’s If you can summarize, I know it’s difficult. 

Tanya (2): I think that at the heart of all of this is self love at the heart of all of this is self love. And if I were to give up teaching sexuality, if I were to define myself in any other way, I would, I would say I teach self love. And, and honestly, I I’m always teaching self love.

I’m always teaching about love. It’s all I’m ever teaching about. And I, I, I like to work within the space of sexuality because it lies at the center of us. And if I can, if I can add. like a little bit of an erotic charge to the teaching, it, it, it expands its power. It’s like a force that allows the messages to, to go deeper inside of you cellularly.

Does this make sense? 

Giancarlo: Completely, completely. It’s very well said. [00:34:00] And I, I just realized now to what importance is this concept, concept of boundaries. And, you know, I did the ISTA level one and. It’s a lot, it’s, there’s a lot about boundary and desire. And this is ultimately are critical to contain and allow you to express self love.

Because we are so used to neglect our boundaries to fit society as we’ve been saying all along. So okay. 

Tanya (2): I teach about boundaries. It’s one of my favorites. So I, I teach a series of classes underneath the banner of sexual evolution. So, I have one of my kind of gatherings, bundles of teachings is sexual evolution.

And within that, there’s four different courses and, and Freedom of Boundaries is one of the courses, and the classes, [00:35:00] and, Freedom, the Freedom of Boundaries, 

Giancarlo: the freedom that boundaries allow to you to obtain. 

Tanya (2): I just love boundaries. I love boundaries, because boundaries are Are the, are the way that I prove to myself that I am trustworthy to myself.

Like, for me, that boundaries is about increasing my trustworthiness to me. 

Speaker 5: Totally. 

Tanya (2): How do I show myself that I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m trustworthy so that my inner children can appear to me and lay their head on my lap and say, this is where I’m hurting. I, I demonstrate to them that I am safe by holding boundaries, by not continually throwing myself under the bus.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Like, 

Tanya (2): oh, here comes the bus again. Let me just throw myself under that. Like, and with boundaries, I develop a way of, of communicating to the different dimensions of myself. To me, I’m a village. I’m a village. Like I’m, I’m who you see [00:36:00] now and within me, I’m like a multiplicity of little children, like orphan dimensions of myself that I want to bring on the journey of self love.

I cannot achieve, I cannot climb the mountain of love when I’m leaving pieces of myself at the bottom. So I need to attend to all of these pieces so that so that we can climb the mountain of love together. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah, it’s very well said. And I just realized that ultimately trauma dissolves the ability to create boundary in addiction, in in, in, in just in behavior.

It’s, it’s, it’s very interesting. But so another, another term that caught my attention in your work is this idea of sexual evolution, because it’s true that most people evolve in every domain at work with sport, with interest, with culture, but then sexually, They think that that’s [00:37:00] one thing you do this way and you make love at 40, 50, 60, like you were doing at 20.

Tanya (2): Or 15, like whenever you first, I find that, that was my discovery, was I was like, why are all these like really amazing men, as soon as you get in the bedroom, they’re behaving like they’re 15. Like it’s like at the point where they got initiated into sex, it’s like there’s a kind of a freeze. 

Giancarlo: But can you elaborate, what is a 15 behavior?

Tanya (2): Oh, what is a 15 behavior? Gosh, you could tell me probably better than I could tell you, but like, for 

Giancarlo: me, it’s like insecurity and premature ejaculation. So that’s, that’s, it sounds very good for this man you’re describing. 

Tanya (2): I don’t know. It’s like a. For me, the whole concept. In authenticity? It’s like, it’s just, it’s just, it’s not, it doesn’t have any depth to it.

It’s like one dimensional and, and I get it because there’s, there is no teaching out there. Like there is just like, I remember I, I held a class [00:38:00] for when, I don’t know, when, one of, when we go back to the water story, I held exhibitions of my water films and within the exhibitions I would, I would invite teachers.

And one of the things was. I did a Tantra class for teenagers. 

Speaker 5: Such a good idea. 

Tanya (2): It was so cool. And I introduced it. Here in Ibiza? It was in London. I, I would really, I love to work with teenagers. We have to work with children. We have to do it. We have to do it. Yeah. It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s such a perilous ground because of.

Giancarlo: Maybe like. they call it preteen, right? Maybe 18, 21. 

Tanya (2): Yeah, I think, I think like the, actually the time is the like would be beautiful to be around 16, 17, 18. And then there is 

Giancarlo: the consent, the major, the parents, but anyhow, I think it can be, can happen. I mean, I 

Tanya (2): just think it’s a really interesting time to how I presented it to them was you, you don’t have like a lot of architectural structures, like, you know, like you’ve, you’ve learned.

On to which you can hang your sexuality [00:39:00] because you’ve learned about it from shitty movies like not like whatever like for me I’m gonna say American Pie like like crappy American films where they they They talk about sex then then you’ve seen your parents and then you’ve probably seen porn and that’s really like all you got 

Giancarlo: as a sexual education, right 

Tanya (2): and then and so this was just this is just another version, like another architectural structure that you can decide how you want to, to build your own home with.

Like maybe you want to add in these kind of floor to ceiling windows, like, and it was just, just to share that there’s different ways. I remember this scene, like, because there was the whole thing about the introduction of the truth of the clitoris and there was like a, a drawing, like she presented this drawing of the, of the truth of the clitoris and everybody just leaning forward over this drawing.

like, What the? What? 

Giancarlo: Because it’s very long. It’s 

Tanya (2): beautiful. It’s like this orchid that lives inside. And, and like the, the fact that the clitoris is like when the baby [00:40:00] decides whether it’s going to be a male or a female, whatever erectile tissue would have become the penis becomes the clitoris. Isn’t that cool?

Giancarlo: Amazing. 

Tanya (2): So 

Giancarlo: There was a gigantic clitoris at Burning Man this year. Did you see the photo? 

Tanya (2): I didn’t. But that’s structured. But do you know they only discovered this like, 

Giancarlo: Recently, like 40 years ago or something. No, no, no, 

Tanya (2): no, no. Less than that. It was like in the 2000s or the late 1900, like 1992, 1998, 

Speaker 6: 2002.

Tanya (2): Somebody in France finally mapped the clitoris. And it was like, what? Crazy, right? I mean, we could talk about the clitoris for ages, just the way that it’s been, like, it was removed from Grey’s Anatomy, like, it’s just, because it is the, it’s the truth of our pleasure, like, it, it has no other purpose than pleasure, no other purpose.

So it directly says, if, if, if God didn’t make women for pleasure, why would he have made this? [00:41:00] It’s like, it’s just, it’s just the instantaneous, like, of course I’m here for pleasure. Of course we’re here for pleasure. There’s no other purpose for this, this, this organ than pleasure. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Okay. So, so, you, you started with the, with your Buddhist and Zen practice that, that directed you towards self love.

And then you created like a first class or workshop or endowed. When was that? Masomenos like how many years ago, 

Tanya: 2019, 

Giancarlo: 2019. So pre COVID 

Tanya: 19 and then 

Giancarlo: probably during lockdown, you had a lot of zoom on, on, on, on sex education. 

Tanya (2): I haven’t taught. Like, my teaching career has been, I didn’t like ramp it up and do this like, Alright, I’m on.

It wasn’t like that. I’ve never been very good at pushing myself forward for things. Like, I’m not, it’s never been easy for me [00:42:00] to say like, Oh, I don’t know. So, the thing, I’ve always operated in the way of what comes to me, I give my all. So, lockdown was beautiful. Lockdown was in my home in London with my kids and like, 

Giancarlo: Nurturing time.

Tanya (2): Yeah. Just, just simple and sweet. I’m super, super fortunate to have that story to tell, but then it, it started to grow and it started to build and, and, and at a certain point I really accepted the assignment. I think for almost, like I said, I went into this book and this, this space with a lot of resistance.

And at a certain point I just, you know, really what I started to hear was all the abuse stories. I just started to hear all the abuse stories and I thought, I just realized like, like 60 percent of the world has been abused. 

Giancarlo: Really? 

Tanya (2): That’s my guess. It’s my guess as I hear it, men, women, I hear stories, I hear stories, I hear stories.

It’s so common and there’s so [00:43:00] much shame around it and nobody talks about it. And that depth of hurt, I just, I just really recognize like if we want our children to be safe in this world. We need to heal our sexuality. 

Speaker 5: Totally. 

Tanya (2): And it’s not, it’s like I have so much compassion for where that act would have come from and how that act was received.

And I, I really Whatever I can do, I’m going to do. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, I really resonate with that. This lady, Amanda Fielding, she started a very successful foundation to legalize psychedelic, and she says that a little provocative, you know, in a provocation way, but not so much that the origin of all evil in the world is sexual frustration.

And I was reading, I don’t know, I can’t remember if it was a book or a film about [00:44:00] how Al Qaeda turned some young Muslim in London to be part of, to become a Judaist. And the common denominator among all this story in this, I don’t remember, was sexual frustration. 

Tanya: Frustration is an 

Tanya (2): interesting word.

I would use distortion. 

Giancarlo: Distortion or lack of, you know, rather sexual frustration for meaning like, you know, 

Tanya (2): being held out of that space, 

Giancarlo: involuntarily celibacy, you know, like there’s a big movement, the incel. So, anyhow, this is maybe it’s an exaggeration, but it’s true. 

Tanya (2): I don’t, I don’t think it’s an exaggeration.

I think that’s one dimension of how it’s, it’s in, in some ways it’s proof that that is the way that they can, you know, that we are being manipulated in this way. Like, and, and if you turn up the volume on that manipulation, you can create this. And if you keep it quiet, you create this like, I mean but yeah, I, I just really [00:45:00] feel that.

Like back to this thing about watching Iran, you know, I watched Iran over this this past year What’s happening in Iran and and all of that is about sexuality. All of that is about sexuality like 20, 000 people jailed. They’re still they’re still murdering people quietly one by one executing people there They’re still there’s still there’s still so much violence towards women there.

There’s still so much raw pain that’s happening there and all of it is is A fear of sexuality. All of it. Women can’t show their hair? What do you mean you can’t show your hair? If I show my hair, it’s gonna be so like, like you’re gonna jump across this table and ravage me because you’re so out of control at the sight of my hair.

And And if you jump across the table and ravage me, that will not be your fault, that will be my fault. Because I will have caused that by showing you my hair. I will have enticed you. It’s a very strange story, isn’t it? [00:46:00] 

Giancarlo: So the origin of, of the prophet, of the Koran, of Mohammed, I mean, that’s very similar to the Christian background of controlling desire to control humanity.

What, what was the 

Tanya (2): I mean, I think it depends on if you’re talking about the, the actual words of any of these prophets or the way that they were interpreted after their life. And I’m not an expert, like I’m, I’m way out of my depth now, so I should probably be quiet before I. Yeah, 

Giancarlo: me too. Me too. Okay.

But so I’m curious to see. How your okay, sorry, I think I interrupted earlier on. You were saying that, you know, your teaching is called sexual evolution and there is four pillars. So one is about boundary, freedom of boundary. 

Tanya (2): First one is authenticity. Authenticity. I’m teaching tomorrow. Maybe you’ll come.

Giancarlo: Nice. 

Tanya (2): The first one is authenticity. The second is boundaries. The third is self love. And the fourth is is a workshop for women, which is. Which I’d [00:47:00] really like to work with men as well in the, in the Well, anyway, it’s, it’s, it’s really about the the experience of being a woman and how much we have been contained.

So it’s like a, it’s a, I, I kind of, I teach in a very kind of university class way. Like I, I, I have, I’m very structured in my teaching and I, I really know what I want to, the, the points that I want to deliver, like the, the thought. The thoughts I want to land. So I, I, so that the fourth one is called the worship workshop and that that’s about the recognition of our our, how society has, has created this hatred within ourselves for our, for our vulva, for our yoni, for our womb space, like for our, our sexual world.

Giancarlo: Because, because woman comes with this huge trauma of the [00:48:00] patriarchy of being ownership of a father and then become ownership of a husband. I mean, this has been thousands of your conditioning and this is reflecting in. In the trauma and the lack of freedom and lack of empowerment of some of these ladies that you teach, right?

Tanya (2): I think that I think the patriarchy sucks for everyone. Yeah, every sentient being like I’m I’m a huge advocate for men huge I’ve raised two men like I the patriarchy the abuse which is like the the brutality with which men are treated as is Is is enormous and I so I don’t We, we both have suffered massively, men and women have suffered massively under this, this ridiculous force, under this paradigm that we are trying to move through.

And, and yeah, so I, I, I don’t want to say that, like, I, I just always want to say in the same breath that men have suffered just as much because I, I [00:49:00] don’t, I don’t, I don’t It, we have to move towards union. We have to move towards union. We have to have compassion for men and for women. Like, we’re not, you know, we’re watching, watching what’s happening in the Middle East right now.

It’s just division, division, division, division. Hatred, blame, and, and at a certain point, we need to forgive. We need to forgive each other for the, the, the way that we have behaved. And the and recognize the pain that lies underneath that behavior and, and really realize that until we’re working in unison and we, we were, we’re peaceful together, we’re not going to get anywhere.

So, 

Giancarlo: yeah, yeah. Yeah. But so forgive me, Tanya. If sometimes I like to put a little bit my marketing head on because you’ve been so modest and humble about, you know, not really selling your services, but you know, I’d love people in this podcast to, you know, take away some, you know, like concrete, applicable, practical insight.

So if a woman is [00:50:00] listening to us and she feel that she need to. You know, work on this energy that she feels that there’s a lot of potential. She understand the potential, but there’s some blockage of whatever kind. Maybe. Can you describe a typical situation of before, during and after of, of, of a client that comes to you?

Let’s say it’s a lady that I just described that wants to, to, to you know harness his energy in a more empowered way. How would the process be if you could summarize it? 

Tanya (2): The process with me? 

Giancarlo: Yes. 

Tanya (2): There’s different ways that you can work with me. I, I do a lot of one on one work. And my one on one work is I’m very intuitive.

So you can come to me with the mess of your thoughts. I work with men and with women. And we would drop into our hearts and through a conversation through our hearts, we kind of, [00:51:00] we, we find a path for you to follow and I would offer you practices and you’re, you want me to be more specific in an actual journey, don’t you?

Okay. So there’s. Those are the ways that you can either work with me on a one on one situation, you can attend my classes in the real, I’m also creating my classes online. And the way that we would work together is we would, we would quest within you to find the places where you are resistant to love.

That’s, it’s pretty much that. We’re just looking for the places inside of you where you have built barriers to love, barriers to self love, and I’m very pragmatic. The way that if when you come to one of my classes, you’ll leave with notes and exercises, and they’re beautiful. They’re tiny little invitations which are a pleasure to add into your day in your life.

For, for women, for somebody listening who doesn’t have access to any of these things, [00:52:00] I would, I think it’s really the simplicity of, of putting your hand on your womb. Just tuning into your womb, like, really, like, placing your hand on your lower belly as many times as you can a day, and rubbing, and letting yourself For a moment, for a second, for a minute, just attune to your womb space, and then allowing through that attunement, that tiny thing that you’re doing that seems ridiculous, in a period of time, over whether it be days, weeks, or months, you will start to have epiphanies appearing within your own life.

You’ll reconnect yourself to your voice. You know, you want to reconnect yourself to your to your instincts, and this is where our instincts lie. And it would probably be quite similar for men. You know, like, you don’t have a womb, but you have your Hara, your Dantian, your power source, [00:53:00] in the same area.

It’s three fingers down from your belly button, and it exists in the center of your body. So three fingers down in the center, which is actually very, like, where your womb space is for women, is where We are connected to earth, we’re connected to knowing that we couldn’t possibly know. So just that simple act of, of rubbing your lower belly and, and, and having a moment where you just are with that rubbing and then very quickly it just becomes like something you do to soothe.

You come back to that as a soothing space and, and you will, you will be. Amazed at how much information within yourself you will unlock. How does that feel? 

Giancarlo: That’s definitely applicable. Right? Advice. 

Tanya (2): And it seems so, it seems, were you to follow this path for today, tomorrow, the week, you’d be surprised.

You’d be [00:54:00] surprised at the memories which will come forward to you and the knowing which will come forward to you. And were you to follow this path for several months, you would be much more attuned to your intuition. 

Speaker 5: Interesting. 

Giancarlo: Interesting. And, and so what do you think about the current state of the tantra, the neo tantra, the sexual liberation course?

Do you, do you feel do you have any comment or? 

Tanya (2): I think that it’s really I think that it has, it’s, I think it’s beautiful work. I think it’s, I, I believe very deeply that if we push past our trauma, Like to be, we can, we can push past our trauma to be in those spaces of sexual freedom and then I think we’re just re traumatizing ourselves.

I feel it’s very important to create a space of safety within yourself before [00:55:00] you move into those collective sexual experiences. Or, you know, I think there’s a lot of, of pressure to, to, to present as a free creature, which is still, it’s not authentic. You’re pushing, you’re pushing past the places inside of you which are, are crying to be seen.

And you’re like, no, I’m not going to see you again. Again, I’m going to push past you. Again, I’m going to push past you. And I think that that’s, can be really traumatic. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. 

Tanya (2): I think that that can do more harm than good. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. 

Tanya (2): And so I feel that wherever you go to learn about these, these, these dimensions of yourself, I, I hope that they involve a basis of self love before you move there.

Like, I would look for that in a, in a, and I would listen to myself. Like if I walk into a room and, and I shut down, I feel nervous on my throat chakra. My heart closes up. I, I, I feel cramping in my womb space. My, [00:56:00] my Yoni feels like she’s screaming and wants to get out. Then I am not going to override that anymore as I have so many times in the past, so many times in the past in my life, I have ignored that.

That strong instinct in my body and so, and I have been in these situations where I’ve been at these parties or been at these gatherings or been at these things and I’ve turned around and walked out the door and I, I’ve questioned in those moments when I turned around and walked out the door, is this my, I’m going to do quote Mart’s frigidity or brokenness or like, is this me being so uptight?

And I turn around and walk out the door and then I question that part of myself and now I recognize like, no, it’s not, it’s not about that. It’s that I have not made myself safe in those places yet. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. Completely. I think this is very important and you, I think you express it very well.

And it’s, I feel it’s a little bit the same, the similar risk with with psychedelic ceremonies [00:57:00] that are not handled properly. There’s not enough preparation, not enough intention, not enough integration, just not enough care. And, and that can, you know, traumatize people. And it’s some of this, you know, tantra, neo tantra.

Workshop retreat. One week long retreat. It’s true. I find myself in sometimes in some specific exercise where I didn’t feel safe emotionally, psychologically. I felt and you don’t feel like leaving because sometimes they pair you with someone else. And then you don’t want to leave this person hanging.

But I here at the I’m not going to say where, but one of this Tantra festival, I was extremely uncomfortable in one of these four element massage. where the person I was paired with was just not acknowledging the fact that I was a beginner, that I didn’t [00:58:00] have an experience. She was almost more concerned about her bad luck to end up with the non expert than really caring for guiding me in this very vulnerable situation.

And then I didn’t talk much about it, but it’s true. came to mind immediately now that you mentioned you know, you, the boundary and, you know, the risk of re traumatizing. So, so yes, like for psychedelic retreat, tantra retreat should have some sort of like, you know, ethical screening, make sure that they have like You know, like a code of ethics, series of articles of understanding where the other person is at and everybody’s in different phase and make sure that they do a proper screening.

I have to say, ISTA level one has been amazing. The teacher was incredible, super. You know, I [00:59:00] think the three, for me, the three major characteristics of a good teacher, it’s, you know, for me, the cognitive, the intellectual ability to, to explain things. For me, this is still important. And then the embodiment of the teaching and then the integrity.

And I want to do a shout out to Raffaello Manacorda because he really had these three characteristics and he’s part of the faculty and they’re now restructuring this institute of it’s called the International School of Temple Art who had some I don’t know why I’m going down this road, but anyhow, I want to say that this is a, is a, is a It’s an organization that is going through a transformation.

They used to allow intercourse between teachers and, and, and between facilitator and student with a lot of control, but still that has been abolished, which I think is a good idea. And, and but they, they take the screening very seriously. I apply for level two [01:00:00] and in my answers, they, they address the fact that, you know, did I really integrate level one?

And they made me think. And in a way, I think they were right. So I felt that it’s good that they really spend the time to look at those, at those Because we don’t want now to throw away the baby with the bathwater, right? No, no, I 

Tanya (2): agree. And I think it’s beautiful that they’re like They’re, they’re doing that.

I, I, I didn’t realize that. And I, I, you know, chapeau. That’s fantastic. Yeah, exactly. And important. Because, I mean, I, I, I think that the, the main thing is that when you walk into a situation and you talk to a teacher, like, again, place your hand on your womb and tune in. Like, how do I feel in the presence of this person?

Are there any red flags? Because it’s, it’s, It’s, I, I don’t want to, I don’t want to work with any teacher that I don’t [01:01:00] respect, that I don’t like they, they, they don’t inspire me and that I don’t feel safe with. And safety is probably number one because, you know, if we’re, if we’re in the wrong if we’re in fight or flight, like if, if our nervous system isn’t settled, if we’re not in a calm and peaceful place, we can’t get into any kind of flow state.

And we can’t achieve any kind of sexual expansion. 

Speaker 5: And, yeah, growth, yeah. 

Tanya (2): But that, like, specifically within sexuality, like, you need to feel safe. If you don’t feel safe, your nervous system is not going to relax enough for you to go to the places that are interesting. 

Giancarlo: Let me ask you one thing about you know, being sexually active or not when you’re single.

So what do you think? You know, I have so many friends, mostly woman, to be honest, that You know, they’re looking for the right boyfriend, the right partner. And so they [01:02:00] really made a vow of celibacy while they find the right one. What do you think? I mean, what would you recommend? And maybe it’s again, one case by case situation, but would you recommend, I mean, would you recommend self love one, two, would you recommend to find a partner that might not necessarily be like romantic partner, but a partner that.

You know, you choose to explore your sexuality. You know, ISTA has this protocol BDSMR, something like that. So B is the boundary. You exchange, you know, when you decide to engage with someone, you go through these five letters. And so the boundary, you decide, okay, what is your boundary? Do you want to do this?

Not this touch here? Their desire. What do you desire? Relationship status? Very clear. Are you open? Are you monogamous? Are you in full consent? Whatever your status is, your sexuality health? When was the last time [01:03:00] you had a check? And and then meaning M’s for meaning, you know, what kind of aftercare do you need after this engagement?

And so people says, Oh, my God, this is so lame. It’s gonna kill these kids, all the magic, but actually create a safe container for the things you were mentioning from relaxing your nervous system. So for single people, would you one recommend self love? And maybe if you don’t mind, give some advice. And two, would you recommend to find And bye.

A friend, or maybe not a friend, maybe a someone new following a very clear ethical code of sexual engagement and expectation and desire and boundaries, et cetera. 

Tanya (2): As you said, I think everybody’s in an individual process, like in my own experiment, life experiment, I did take a year of celibacy and and I, I was, it, it was absolutely profound, 

Giancarlo: but forgive me [01:04:00] my ignorance, but celibacy include self love.

Tanya (2): No, no, no. For me, it was just, it was just, it was just a non for the most part, it was no lovers, no 

Giancarlo: lovers. 

Tanya (2): And then like. Like a bit of messing around, but like, no, no, no lovers, no penetration, not like, I don’t know, anyway, whatever, that’s very detailed. We love details in this podcast. I I know, I know.

I, I, I’m not, I’m not really one big one for details. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. In the vast expanse, within the, within the context of safe container in my classroom, I’m happy with details, but when it’s just going out into the world wide web, I’m a bit more reserved in what I’ll express. However, I, I’m, I’m a huge advocate for self pleasure practices, whether you’re men and women, for sure, for sure, for sure, because it’s just such an interesting place to it’s such an, like an amazing way for you to, to push past your boundaries safely.

You know, to explore the outer edges safely, and there’s no confusion about any external [01:05:00] energy, it’s just you. So if, if you hit a point where you’re blocked, that’s nothing to do with anybody but you. So you can see very clearly where where your own constrictions lie. Like where, where you bump up against your own blockages.

And I, I think that, and then you can play in those areas, like, oh, okay, whoa. So you can start to play in those areas and you can do a lot about expanding your capacity to stay in orgasm for longer periods of time. Like there’s just a lot of safety when you’re in self practice. And, and further, when you’ve had an extensive self practice Self pleasure practice.

You become much better at communicating what it is that you like and you don’t like. And then I think it’s up to everyone. I, I, I watch sometimes and you can lock yourself up in an ivory tower and wait for him to arrive. And that might be more fear based. Then love based if you see what I mean, you can be I think that there’s an honesty around saying I’m I’m doing this because I’m afraid it’ll [01:06:00] get messy or I’m doing this because I’m not interested in exchanging energy at that level with with with random humans and I respect I, I respect that as a decision, but if, if you are kind of spiritually bypassing the truth of the fact that you’re just frightened to to be vulnerable with somebody, to be in that vulnerability of sexuality, then I think that that’s a, that’s another blockage, right?

Yeah. I, I love what you’re saying about the, the honesty upfront, the learning to communicate like. Those are beautiful practices. The boundaries, your sexual health, the way that you express, I don’t think that makes it. I think that the moment of those, the conversation talking about your sexual health is obviously not very sexy, but it’s, it is an important, important conversation to have.

But I, I believe that all of those things are like back to this idea of connection because one of the things which killed me when I was watching in the [01:07:00] beginning was I might, you know It was very frequent that people would say to me, Oh, I had sex with this guy, and then now I don’t feel comfortable to text him the next morning.

I was like, dude, that guy was like inside of you, like he came inside of you, you know, and, and that, that ultimate act of intimacy, and you don’t feel comfortable to text him tomorrow morning, you’re trying to be cool. Like, what is that? And that’s where I’m talking about this disconnect, like, that I would, as a, as a, as a man or as a woman, that I would allow that degree of intimacy with another human and then ghost them the next day because I’m too frightened to actually engage in the conversation.

So I love that. I love the creation of a, of a, of a, of a communication. I think to establish a way of talking is. A, a pathway to establish a pathway of communication, of honesty, of, of clarity. I love the, what do you need for aftercare? I love that. I love [01:08:00] that. I think it’s so important. What do you need for after, what do I need for aftercare?

I need to be acknowledged. I’d like to have a one, like, I’d like to check in in a week. Like, let’s talk for the next three days. I want like a, a slow drop off. 

Speaker 6: Exactly. And then I’m 

Tanya (2): happy to have space, but let’s check in with each other. In the next week and see how we’re both feeling. How are you? How do you feel?

Do you feel heard? Do you feel seen? Do you feel like, you know, is there anything that, you know, are you, are you judging yourself about anything? Is there anywhere that you’re feeling shame that I can help you with? Like how, how can I be in service to your growth? And how can you be in service to mine? And, and how can that be, that can be an exchange which doesn’t involve commitment.

It can just be an exchange of, of, of, of love for another human. 

Speaker 5: Exactly. 

Tanya (2): Yeah. 

Giancarlo: So that’s, I think, my feeling is that when I see some of my girlfriends that they’re waiting, waiting, waiting. Okay, this might be the, the pathological. In some, [01:09:00] in some other case, that can be like a, like a psychological obstacle.

But let’s say that they’ve done their work on themselves and they’re really ready and they’re not, they’re not scared of of, of vulnerability with another person, but they just don’t find anybody they like. Would you recommend to engage sexually with someone that they know? It’s not a candidate for a relationship, but just for the sake of loving another human in that moment and, and, and, and working on, on, on the, on your sexual, sexual evolution.

Tanya (2): Personally, I, I think that it’s, as long as the boundaries are clear from the beginning, like, look, I, I’m, I’m looking for a lover. I’m not like, I’m, you know, I’m in the space of, of seeking something larger, but that’s not arrived. And I, you know, I just want, I want touch. I want, you know, like I want cuddles.

And I think, I think that’s like, Absolutely straightforward and yes, but it’s, it’s a very particular practice because to, to stay out of the space of attachment, because that’s [01:10:00] the, the issue is, is like the Disneyfication of life. Like Disney has Walt Disney has a lot to answer for in how we perceive, you know, love and relationship happily ever after.

And, and as a woman, I watch myself and I can be in that. That lover space. And I can start to paint all over that person. Like, Oh my God, maybe, maybe he’s the one, maybe, maybe, maybe. And I can like run down that Disney path and, you know, like find ourselves in the, like, you know, whatever, in the little carriage riding off into the sunset.

So, but that’s, that’s for me, that’s been a really interesting practice anyway, because I don’t want to be like that. If I’m in big love, I don’t want to like, I don’t want to. Fall into that old way of being. So this practicing non attachment is a really interesting exercise I have found. 

Giancarlo: Yes. Also practice.

Am I answering your question? Yeah, yeah. Totally. And you know, I also wanted to see if maybe you find a neurological, neurobiological connection with being sexually active and attracting the [01:11:00] person you want to have a relationship with. 

Tanya (2): I believe that is true. 

Giancarlo: Exactly. 

Tanya (2): I believe that is true. I don’t have any 

Giancarlo: proof.

Tanya (2): I don’t have any proof. And I, I don’t, I don’t know whether that’s coming where that’s coming from within me. It’s like, it’s, I was literally thinking about that this morning and yesterday I was like, Hmm, where’s this coming from within me? But I really genuinely feel that like, when you’re in that space of like, you’re all juiced up, you know, like you’re like in your, in your personal, you’re more 

Giancarlo: connected to life.

Tanya (2): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Giancarlo: It’s very sad because, you know, all my friends from You know, from childhood, from, from, from Italy, you know, they’re basically most of them just stopped having sex with their wives and it’s like, come on guys and, and, you know, and I was, and then, you know, I would, I would, I would ask them, so how do you deal with monogamy?

And they would say, Oh, like everybody else with food. 

Tanya (2): Oh, and football and, 

Giancarlo: and, and football. And then, and then, but so what do you recommend to a couple that’s been [01:12:00] together 40 years and they lost, you know, like to sustain desire for so long is unusual, right? How many couples do you know that been together 20, 30, 40, 50 years that are sexually active?

Tanya (2): Do you know any statistics? I think, I think it’s, I think it’s frighteningly, I think it’s, I think the statistics would be really frightening. Yeah. I remember so clearly. I remember at Burning Man one year and they, I, I’d never been, you know, like after they burned the man and the, and I didn’t realize that that whole night the ashes are like a thing and people go to the ashes and they, and I remember walking by and there was this like, like much older couple, like they looked like they were well in their seventies and they were making love in the ashes.

Giancarlo: Oh, nice. 

Tanya (2): And I was just like, Oh my God, that is so freaking beautiful. But, but this is back to this thing of attending to our sexual evolution, you know, like, so your friends initially, who are they going to, they’re going to talk to their friends. She’s going to go, Oh, I never do it anyway. They’re no, no, no.[01:13:00] 

And like, if we, if we, if we talk to our, our cohort, we’re probably going to have that behavior reinforced. And so where do you learn? Where do you learn? Where do you go? And so this is this thing. For me, like, when I talk about sexual evolution, I mean, we, most, many of the people that we know on the island, most people that are here, are here because we’re attending to our evolution.

We’re interested in evolving. Our sexuality is, is, is the area which is probably the, because it holds the most trauma and the most shame, the most pain, the most like constriction, like the most social conditioning. As I said, it’s not an area that it’s easy to go to. It’s like, I watch people like even with the, with the book, I remember going to some like yoga thing, yoga gathering to sell the book and I could watch what some people would pick it up.

Some people would walk, they would literally walk away from the [01:14:00] book with their hands in the air. Like backing up because the energy of this, the, this untouchable force, like it holds so much pain that they can’t even, they can’t even be in the energy of this book. And it broke my heart. You 

Giancarlo: shouldn’t have them broke your heart, you should have said, you should have felt good about yourself that the book is needed.

Tanya (2): I just, you know, like, wow, how do we, how do I reach that heart? How do I reach that heart that puts their hands up and walks away? How do I, and that heart needs it so, so, so, so desperately. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. You know? So let’s let’s do a little bit of promotion for you, for your book, for your course. Thank you very much.

So where people can find what they, what, where they can buy the book, where they can sign up for one on one, for the workshop, for. Tell us everything, . [01:15:00] 

Tanya (2): So the way that you connect with me is I’m, I’m reasonably active on Instagram. That’s where I do my most of my talking. So my Instagram is at TK and love.

I have a brand new website, , and that is TK and love as well. So www dot, tk, and love dot. Gasp has its own, has its own website. 

Speaker 7: Amazon? 

Tanya (2): No. No. No. Again. No, you have to find it. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a quest to buy this book. Interesting. 

Giancarlo: Interesting. Interesting. I 

Tanya (2): didn’t make any of this stuff easy. So Gasp is gasp.

life, but you can find it through my Instagram. Gasp has its own Instagram, at Gasp, which is really beautiful. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Thank you very much. Oh. It was a pleasure to have you and we’ll check in together maybe again in a, I don’t know, few months. That would be beautiful. Thank you very much. That was so nice.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Peace.[01:16:00] 

Speaker: Coca zonada, it’s zonada and tea. Coca zonada, it’s zonada and 

Speaker 8: tea.