26: Couples Rising: Canay & Rudy on the Importance of Dreaming Together

Regenerate X
Heart Masters/ The Heroines
Unconditional Men
Socratic Design
Tony Robbins
Abraham Hicks
Osho
Yawanawa
Gabor Mate
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Wizard of Oz
Monogamish
Estado Impuro
Sex to Spirit
ISTA
Hoffman Process
Chris Williamson
Castaneda
Christopher Ryan

Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello. Hi, welcome to this episode of the Mango TV podcast. They, we have two guests. Shanai Atalai is a business visionary, senior advisor, keynote speaker, conscious business designer, and leadership mentor. She’s the founder of the regenerative success platform for women leaders called the heroines. And he’s the co founder of regenerate [00:01:00] X, the learning and design agency, which serves heart masters.

Experiential events in Ibiza and around the world to co create systems of peace. Shania has long believed that consciousness is the door to freedom. In 2018, she developed 5D conscious business design and 5D values, methods for business and government leaders. Her background includes leading the world’s leading design consultancy, fewer design and innovation by Accenter Interactive in Turkey and the Middle East.

We’re on fastest growing media technology start up in eight countries and working as an academician in global leadership and innovation. Rudy, the whale is the co founder of regenerate X and unconditional men. He guides, connect and inspires leaders and entrepreneurs to create new paradigms of regenerative change in his 40 plus years of experience working in innovation in different sectors, including music, media, marketing, technology, mobile, [00:02:00] social and holistic health.

His vision for the future is that the deeper underlying systemic shift cannot happen any longer on the outside and need to happen from innovating within ourself. Unconditional Man is a platform and a community of evolutionary man empowering the authentic transformation of leaders in service to the regeneration of our communities and the world.

Regenerate X is an expirational learning and design agency. advising leaders to design conscious business model, create hybrid experience, and activate communities for regenerative futures. Their weekly newsletter reaches 17, 000 plus professionals globally. And finally, Heartmasters will happen in Ibiza October 1st to 5th, 2022, and will be produced by RegenerativeX.

It’s a five day regenerative journey by an amazing group of experienced global community leaders, where women, the heroines, and [00:03:00] men and conditional men come together, co creating systems of peace after three and a half day transformational journey. That sounds all amazing. Okay. So just quickly, welcome Shania and Rudy.

Rudy: Good morning, Giancarlo. Hi. 

Giancarlo (2): So today we’re going to try a new format. You know, Mango TV has done roughly 30 podcasts, and this is the first one with more than one person. And in particular, like we’ve created the subcategory psychedelic confessions, we are doing a new category called couple secrets or couple confessions.

So, uh, the first couple are Rudy and Shanai. And, um, we’re gonna try to keep, um, a 50 50 structure, you know, uh, 50 percent of the time I’d love to go deeper into their practice and how, um, they’ve created this incredible platform to, to help regeneration and Conscious business and then the other half [00:04:00] Dinging a little bit on their private life and let’s see how how deep they let me in Okay, so why don’t we do with ladies first and we ask Shanai a little bit to you know Tell us their personal story and and in particular if you if there is one maybe sometimes more than one cathartic moment that really give you the The the motivation to devote your life to helping other 

Canay: Thank you.

It’s really such a pleasure to be here. I love your podcast and I love this opportunity. These topics are so relevant and important. What an amazing service. So thank you. Um, so I’m Janay and I was born and raised in Turkey, in Anatolia. And, uh, I have my own, uh, conditioning of what it means to be a woman, a leader.

Uh, I have been a very hardworking, very, um, driven, but, um, [00:05:00] highly masculine, uh, woman, leader, uh, in the business life. And my, um, addiction to performance and to the old way of defining success has been, um, conditioned me to live a life that wasn’t mine. Uh, my benchmarks came from the structures of my university, of my society, inspired by my mother, who is an amazing doctor, but she, you know, it’s her, uh, and her life.

I never really, uh, allowed myself to discover who I am. Um, and what I want. So my, uh, cathartic moment came, uh, when I got married, um, and then I was about to give birth to my first daughter and all of a sudden things started coming to surface that I’m not happy. I’m not happy in my marriage. I’m not happy in my life.

And um, Then I [00:06:00] noticed it is best that I dedicate myself, uh, to discovering who I am and what I really want. I have been a very successful leader in business. This was when I was, uh, 30 years old. So the first three decades of my life. Uh, I was like an overachiever and everybody thought I’m like super happy and successful, but it wasn’t the case.

I noticed that when I was looking at the mirror one day and I gave birth to my first daughter and I couldn’t recognize the woman in the mirror. She had no light in her eyes and I’m a very joyous person. I love life. 

Giancarlo (2): So would you say that this marriage, this commitment was put you in the situation where you really had to face?

What it means to be happy. 

Canay: Yeah. I was scared of deep connections because I wasn’t connected to myself. So I manifested a marriage where my ex husband, father of my two children, was an alcoholic. And so I [00:07:00] lived a marriage without the other person and without me in it. So it was total shell. Uh, of course I want to honor him and, uh, our love for each other.

But looking back, I noticed that wasn’t even a true relationship and I didn’t know anything else, but to open myself to discovering who I am, and because I’m very driven about serving to others, I wanted to find a method that can connect my personal journey. I can also relate to business world and serve with it.

And meanwhile, I gave birth to my second daughter and I was like, okay, this is it. I need to find a way out. Everything was dark. So when I started searching for it, you know, when you start searching, the path appears. Um, I came across, um, A friend suggested that I should meet Rudy on Facebook. I was married.

He was married back then and I, [00:08:00] I applied for a divorce and he was going through a divorce process. So I wasn’t interested in another relationship. Uh, but he invited me to join him. to his journey in a method called Socratic design, uh, where, um, with a philosopher and physicist, we, we had the chance to look in deep into our life narratives, how the thoughts are coded and how we can rewrite our own thinking by practicing simple methods like listening, like that, that silence has so much wisdom.

And when you are repeating yourself in a conditioned loop, uh, which I see a lot in humanity in algorithms these days, um, then life wants you to be well. And that is the opportunity for us to reimagine who we are, not just as Janai, not just as woman, but as humanity. This is our capacity and intelligence.

Giancarlo (2): Maybe take one minute to [00:09:00] explain what the Socratic design is. 

Canay: So critic design is when we look into our thoughts and start reflecting our stories. It is very similar to writing journeys, journals like what is my life from childhood until now. And you see the patterns of thoughts. For example, if you think yourself, Oh, I’m a, I’m an amazing achiever.

So you create a lot of difficulties in your life. just to feel that rush and adrenaline of achievement. Or if you say life is unfair, you manifest a lot of unfairness in your life. Doesn’t matter if it’s your business partners or intimate relationships. If you See, the world is a dangerous place. You manifest a lot of accidents, a lot of danger.

So that was like a true reflection. But we also learned Socratic dialogue. Socratic dialogue is the art of listening, and you need to repeat what the other person said before you start [00:10:00] speaking of your own mind, which is 98 percent of the time is not an original idea, but your old self talking. 

Giancarlo (2): It’s like an imago technique.

Have you heard about imago technique? 

Canay: No. 

Giancarlo (2): It’s a couple therapy tool where when, you know, it’s a conflict resolution tool when you hear the other person and then you have to repeat what she said. To make sure that you understood. 

Canay: So in the Socratic dialogue, it’s very similar. And we also use philosophy to find the patterns and the pathways of thinking and use philosophy and value systems to reimagine and recreate, uh, systems for your life and business.

But after I learned this method and went through this journey myself, uh, together with Rudy, Um, I noticed actually I’m feeling a lot of beautiful things in my heart is there, but it was just masked and hurt. So I started opening up slowly and Rudy has been my [00:11:00] companion since then of rediscovering who I am and authentically start living my life not only as, as a witness, but also as an amazing rock, a container that I can, um, You know, lean, lean in and dare to go forward.

He reminds me who I am on my most difficult moments. But I went back to Turkey and then I invited my ex husband, the father of my children, whom we were going through a very difficult divorce process. And he’s a media, media person. So we were always on the media with our story of shame and guilt and blame.

And I said, I’m in peace. I made peace within me because I changed the codes that I’m thinking. I thought I had to win against him and the custody case we found ourselves in. But then I noticed he’s the father of my child and there is no other way but peace and love for the sake of my daughters because they are half me and half [00:12:00] him.

It’s biologically true, right? So everything is about making the connections. It’s not spirituality. It’s not just biology, philosophy. It’s not just business economies. It’s everything combined because we are the creators of all these methods to find our truth and to expand our consciousness. And to cut it short, that was my moment of, uh, catharsis that I lost myself.

And in the process of finding myself, I found love in my heart. And then I invited my ex husband to do Socratic dialogue, Socratic design. He rejected first, but then he was in for it because he was also in a lot of pain. And we invited also my daughters in the design process. And we figured out what it means to be an extended family.

Rudy was always with us. And we designed a new rituals, a new lifestyle, what it means to have vacations when we are divorced together, all those things. And [00:13:00] Honestly, I wasn’t doing this to serve to humanity. I was doing it for myself and for my daughters. But then it turned out that we innovated the application of the most rigid family love in Turkey, which is a conservative country.

Um, that we became the first couple who got common custody in Turkey, which now affects more than 4 million lives. And it’s the end of a huge war in bleeding system, you know, and what I noticed in this process, Giancarlo, when you focus on honestly on your own healing and really do the work in, you have no idea to what extent it can go and mentally you cannot strategize this.

It’s like you are the seed of so many forests and so many new life systems. on this planet and beyond. So my biggest moment of the, you know, like that I’m dead or am I alive, led to the biggest [00:14:00] service of my life in Turkey. But right now, why I’m so passionate about women The woman work the heroines. It’s not to save the world.

It is not to conquer anybody. It’s not about like a woman are better than men. No, it is about work on yourself and integrate your beautiful self into all the systems of business and and other systems that are socially affecting millions of life. And then from there, This is the service, this is what it means to be a heroine.

And that’s why I’m so passionate about peace. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing, amazing. I want to get into the heroine, um, after, after Rudy’s sharing, I just wanted to remind the listener that once again, in a moment of Christ, that would allow the growth. You only grow through crisis, and, and you were lost, your marriage fell, fell down, you were lost, you felt, you felt a loss of meaning, and then out of that losing yourself, you were able to find yourself.

And [00:15:00] this is the eternal story, but, you know, it’s, it’s worth to be reminded because especially nowadays everybody goes through this crisis, from every level, financial crisis, cultural crisis, spiritual crisis, and, and, and people think, oh my God, this is horrendous. But. It is in that moment that there is the seeds for the transformation.

So Rudy, what about you? What is your personal story and your cathartic moment to devote your life to others? 

Rudy: Yeah, I had a very, uh, extraordinary life. I must say I have always been doing what I wanted to do. You know, I imagined and then I, I just did it. So yeah. In my teenage years, I wanted to become a saxophone player.

So I learned the saxophone, played with bands, you know, we toured Europe and Japan and then. 

Giancarlo (2): That was in Belgium, right? That was 

Rudy: in Belgium, yeah. And then, um, I met my first wife. She got pregnant of triple daughters. Yeah, so I got three daughters at the same time. 

Giancarlo (2): So you have five all together. 

Rudy: Yeah. 

Giancarlo (2): Wow.

Talk about divine feminine [00:16:00] in your house. 

Rudy: Yeah. And one of my, uh, daughters became a man also, so we have been, we can go later on that if you want. So very interesting processes of life, you know, as a father. So but then, yeah, in that transition I had this moment also that I had to switch basically from saxophone, which was not like making enough money for me at that time, to going more into business.

I was doing that also. A lot of house parties, you know, I, I built the first house parties in Belgium with lots of DJs, artists, and always very creative. You guys are 

Giancarlo (2): such an Ibiza couple. 

Rudy: So uh, yeah, and then I, I basically started with the internet also in 94, 95, very early on in Belgium. And then that project came to me, which was called Cyber Theater, which was an old movie theater that we redecorated.

And we made a whole cyber theater about it with a hundred computers in it. We had already a 3D augmented reality room then in [00:17:00] 1997. We had a, you know, cyber cafe, we had restaurants, and then we did Business events in the day, we did cultural events in the evening. So every evening there was like cultural events live broadcasted on the Internet.

So that was like the lap of my life later on, you know, I figured out. We did a lot of explorations there, innovations, we did a lot of experiments. And so that led to my career then later into on the Internet where I worked a lot with startups, later on with mobile technology. And I became a very famous blogger at the time.

So, and through that, then also I started traveling the world. Everybody started asking me to go and do talks. I became a public speaker. But I was always living like, okay, uh, in like a professional way of making money, providing for my, you know, family and all that. But I didn’t have a real relationship with my wife also, that was a long time gone, you know, so, and, um, so meanwhile [00:18:00] we moved to Barcelona also in that process, so in 90, early 2000 we moved to Barcelona, we lived 10 years in Barcelona, but in 2009 my wife moved back with the children.

So that for me was like the first, Wake up call like I one day I came back from a conference and the house was empty and I was like, oh my god What is happening to my life, you know, but still I couldn’t figure out what exactly it was. I did some Psychology sessions then and all that but okay. It was mainly focused on me.

Like how do I deal with this? But then again, I, okay, went back into my professional life, I hold on to my profession because that was what I knew best and I could probably hide of my connection to self and my pain. So, and as, uh, in that moment, uh, I was very, you know, successful. So I built another company and then I did more talks and I traveled the world more until I met my second wife, which was living in the UK.

And then I moved [00:19:00] to the UK. And then after a couple of years in the U. K., the real cathartic moment happened. You know, I realized that everything I did at that time, which was always working in innovation or innovating on the outside, I realized I need to innovate on the inside. I was like in my early 50s, and for the first time, I looked back, you know, and then realized that I had trauma that I had never dealt with.

You know, so at that moment also, I met my philosopher friend again, who was living in Peralada in Barcelona, and who does the Socratic design. So he said, like, come and, you know, do a sabbatical, you know, just, you know, take time for yourself. This is the moment you really need time. And so there I learned, like, okay, looking back at my traumas.

My belief systems, my addictions, my assumptions, you know, like everything that we are [00:20:00] holding on from the old, you know, conceptual world that we have been educated with. I realized it doesn’t work any longer, so I have to reinvent myself. So hence, we started with Socratic Design, and another Belgian friend, you know, introduced me on Facebook to Gen I in that period.

And she said like, Oh, I love what you are doing. Meanwhile, I started doing workshops with Socratic design with my philosopher friend and she came to Spain and then I picked her up at the train station in Figueres and that was like, you know, in her blue dress and that was it. 

Beautiful. 

Rudy: Yeah. We fell in love and, and, and I think the second day or something or we were driving around and we were looking in each other’s eyes and it was like.

We’re on for a journey. That was the agreement. You know, we looked in each other’s eyes and we know there’s a soul connection here that is stronger than whatever our mind tells us. So, and from there on, we’ve been on a journey of like personal transformation. We did lots of things from Tony Robbins, [00:21:00] Abraham Hicks, like all the transformational things that you can do.

We probably did them. We did lots of workshops. Uh, we got in touch with plant based medicine also, and then we went on this conscious journey. Yeah, so then I started doing, I was still doing talks, you know, keynote talks, but then I brought in the consciousness element, you know, I talked about the age of consciousness to the technology companies and all that, but then COVID came and then we also went through a serious transformation with, um, uh, because we were also stuck, you know, she didn’t have her daughters yet.

We were in Ibiza. 

Giancarlo (2): She didn’t have a daughter with her. 

Rudy: With her, yeah, yeah. They were still in Turkey. And, um, so then in that process also a lot happened, I think, right? 

Canay: For six months I couldn’t see my daughters. There was no flight to Istanbul. And I didn’t have my residency yet, so I went through a very serious, [00:22:00] painful process that was emotional, spiritual, but even physical.

My livers were hurting, and I had to uncondition myself while I’m going through this pain, what it means to be a mother. Like, what part of that pain really is mine? Because some of it was also the guilt that I was feeling because what others would say, you know, like you’re a mother, how dare you can be away.

And it was so deep, Giancarlo. I totally lost myself in that process. But on the other side, I emerged as a more authentic human, a soul who knows. what she wants and what she is up for. So right now that that process that we also went through together with Rudy showed me that, like you’re saying, the more the contract contraction, the bigger the opportunity.

So hang on, hang in there. And keep on connecting to your beautiful heart, because that is an opportunity inviting you to [00:23:00] evolve. No other experience can. So I’m so grateful to that process. But I also want to mention, and that remembering that we are in this together, when you have someone in the house.

Because my connection to my daughters, Rudy is not their biological father. I couldn’t find my, how I could position myself next to Rudy while my daughters were away. But it was also an opportunity for us to connect as a family. Like, it doesn’t matter biologically you are. It is, they are his children or not.

He was there with us and he has been there for us, uh, all the time. So we reemerged as a very strong family and I’m so grateful. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing. Amazing. But so Rudy, since you mentioned, as you know, Mango TV listener are familiar with plant medicine. Um, you mentioned plant medicine. To what extent? I think the, the, the wake up call, you call it when you came back home in Barcelona and the, and the kids were [00:24:00] gone and the family was gone.

That was the beginning shock to the system. That was the trigger to start looking inside to. What, when did plant medicine enter the process? Before, after, and how did it contribute? 

Rudy: No. Oh. Uh, after when I, uh, when I lived with, uh, Janai and Turkey, so, um, yeah, to say the steps in the right order, uh. Yeah, when I realized when my first wife left with the children, I was basically, I was very, I was living unconsciously, you know, like I was eating a lot, drinking a lot.

At a certain moment, I was weighing 104 kilos. So, you know, so it was more a wake up call, like, I need to change my life. But I wasn’t ready. I still had to go through the process with my second wife in the UK to realize that okay, that I really need to change myself. So but only then, when I met Janai, and then we decided to, I, I moved to Istanbul for three years.

Everybody thought, like, here in Europe, like, [00:25:00] Rudy, what are you doing? You know, you’re going to Turkey with Erdogan and all that. And to be honest, I had the best time of my life. You know, Turkey is an amazing country, an amazing culture, and there’s a, uh, an amazing subculture, you know, that’s very well connected.

Uh, you can say it’s underground. So in there, basically, we got our first, um Yeah, ayahuasca ceremony in Turkey. Yeah, I did a lot of like, um, let’s say soft drugs and marijuana, hashish and LSD experiences when I was young. And then when I was working with in clubs and all that, I also did cocaine and stuff like that.

But you know, and then the part when my children were born, I was basically off drugs. I was mainly using alcohol. So the part with the plant based medicine is like. It’s the step where you realize there is a higher intelligence, yeah, so there is a higher intelligence and that wisdom of the plants is like, it’s so intelligent, right, and it gives you [00:26:00] all these messages of like, What is consciousness?

What are you doing here? 

Giancarlo (2): It’s very humbling, right? It’s 

Rudy: very humbling, it’s very strong, and it, it, it, it basically makes you humble about the human experience. I always say, like, for me, I realize that, you know, we have this, this experience of life through the human body. And we are so blessed to be able to live life.

through this experience. It’s the most intelligent experience that one can have, you know, sensorial, visual, oral, and all that sense. So, and that is the beauty of life, you know, that’s also the gift of life. And I think once we realize that life moves into a different direction or a dimension actually, and then we can create our own realities, you realize that you can create your own realities.

So that’s when we also decided to come to Ibiza. Because there was a one hour ceremony here and somebody told us to, [00:27:00] you know, experience the real thing. So we came to Ibiza, have the ceremony, and then the next morning we said like, this is it. We’re gonna move here. Yeah, so that’s five years ago. Yeah, four or five years ago.

So that’s how we arrived here. And then, um, that’s also that I started to do my work with Unconditioned Man. So, because every time I was talking to men, I had this feeling of like, you know, there is this missing link of like authenticity, you know, like, What are we talking about? We’re talking about work.

We’re talking about things. We’re talking about products. Exactly. Yeah, football, whatever. So, but what is it that you are truly about? So I got interested into that and then with a couple of friends, we started meeting. Um, just at home every time in a different place. And I didn’t know what was man’s work.

I didn’t know anything, but we felt this is, this is good. We need this. There was a connection with man, you know, with other man and an honest, deep, authentic [00:28:00] connection. 

Giancarlo (2): Yeah. So, but yeah, let’s, let’s, let’s stay on that then, then, then after we go to the heroine. So unconditional man, I think I was there at the Genesis, right?

It was like a couple of years ago. Yes. 

Rudy: Before COVID or after? It was before COVID, like, uh, I think we met when I was also with Louis and a couple of others. And, uh, yeah, then when COVID happened, I also started doing it online because I was very skeptical that we could do or transmit this type of authenticity through the screen.

But I learned like the screen doesn’t matter when we show authenticity, it doesn’t matter where there’s a screen in between. So I also learned that this works online. And so I saw, I started developing this project, like. I can see this, like how we can build this, building circles, creating journeys, and it started developing in my mind as a project.

Giancarlo (2): Specifically for men. 

Rudy: For men, yeah. Because you 

Giancarlo (2): thought men were a little bit lost in translation, what it means to be a man. 

Rudy: Totally lost in translation, yeah. And then meanwhile, Jani was doing already the heroine, so [00:29:00] it, it, it kind of made sense. And then I met Sudhir. Uh, only last summer, actually, like in July last year, and then he had his experience of like 30 years working with men and his experience from, uh, with Osho and training the trainers there, and so we immediately clicked, and then we said, okay, let’s start doing circles here in Ibiza, and then we started, I think, last year in September, October, we did some circles, and then we immediately built some programs, like journeys, so journeys, we do six week journeys where we work on specific topics, Like Courage, um, um, Purpose, Masculine Feminine Balance, Father and Son Relationships.

So, but they are six weeks because we meet once a week, and then you get like exercises online like homework. So it is a process, and during the six weeks we are able to change small behaviors. So we make the man conscious about their behavior. Sometimes they’re, [00:30:00] they’re, they’re the asshole and we need to tell them they’re the asshole.

We don’t tell them, but through the experience they realize like, oh my god, it’s me. Yeah, so it’s the focus again on this me. Does the transformation have to come from within? Yeah, it’s never the other. It’s always the person within the person itself. And so we build these programs. We did online programs.

We did some journeys. I think we did four of them last year and now we do our first retreats also. And Heartmasters is the first one we do like with Unconditional Man and the heroines together, but we work separately. for three and a half days and then we will come together and basically what happens is we bring the man or the people from the mind space to the heart and the body space.

Giancarlo (2): Let’s stay a little bit on the men’s circle. So people that are not used to this practice would say, okay, men’s circle is a circle where everybody share from the heart their concerns or vulnerability or problem and by one not [00:31:00] having the woman also. What would you say? 

Rudy: Well, the thing is that man and woman behave differently when they’re in circles together.

Yeah. So when men are together, we can create this sacred space of like, we can share things that only men can hold. Yeah. And also there is a, we have some guidelines that whatever happens in the circle stays in the circle. It’s not shared. And then when you would put women, the men would start, you know, acting differently.

Also, when you put where you would put men into a women’s circle, they would act differently 

Giancarlo (2): about around vulnerability issue, be able to be authentic. 

Rudy: Yeah. So, and what we do is like, if you put 10 men together in a circle for five minutes without guidance, they will start fighting. Yeah. Why? Because they all have an opinion.

Every man has an opinion, whether it’s left, right, up, down, whatever, it doesn’t matter. Yeah. They start confronting each other. Yeah. And it’s because I want to be right. It’s ego play. So the first thing we do is [00:32:00] we don’t talk about opinion. We don’t talk with the mind. We talk about we are interested in what is your experience.

What do you feel when you read this news that makes you angry like that? Yeah. 

Giancarlo (2): Yeah. Let’s not comment on the news. Let’s comment on your reaction. Exactly. 

Rudy: Exactly. So that immediately creates a space of like, Oh, I haven’t been here before. And then, because every man has a different story, you know, and you always think like your own story is the worst, but then you hear stories of people who have been going through so much worse things than yourself.

So it’s a very humbling experience also, and that creates, uh, unity. It creates, um, It creates confidence. It creates trust. 

Giancarlo (2): Solidarity. Yeah, 

Rudy: solidarity. So, and that’s what we’re working on also. So it’s on a very deep level and, and it’s that connection that men are missing. You know, I don’t know if you know, but most men have a problematic relationship with their father.

Most of them, nearly 90 percent if you go into statistics. [00:33:00] Of which 30 percent have a very hateful relationship, another 30 percent they see each other but they are very like, you know, cynical and distant with each other, and then another 30 percent they just see the father for family, you know, duty. So and, and, and that’s the world we live in.

That’s the world we live in where most men deal with issues or trauma that has not been dealt with. And then through that life, you know, it took me, I was in my early 50s. When I looked back at myself and like, Oh my God, I have so much trauma, I haven’t dealt with. And then you have to go through it, and then you need the courage, you need other examples or role models to help you through that stage, because it’s probably also the most difficult stage of your life.

So that’s why you need other men to go through that. And whether you’re 20 years old or 30 or 50, it doesn’t matter. We have any age group. Everybody has their own stories of what is my authentic [00:34:00] self? What is my truth? And how can I connect to men who have the same truth and authenticity? And that’s why our project is so attractive to other men because they feel, they feel the call.

Giancarlo (2): Yeah. So this is, this is so important. And if you allow me, I just want to mention Gabor Mate says that he doesn’t need introduction on this podcast. He says that, uh, every man and woman, but specific with men, they have two basic need, a need of authenticity. Because evolutionary to survive in the savannah from the saber to tiger you need to be authentic and then attachment, you know, you have this attachment Towards your mother at the beginning, but then towards your father as a role model.

And sometimes, like in 90 percent of the case, fathers make mistakes, lose interest, are distracted, they don’t show up to the, to the school recital. And the kid, age four, five, six, seven, interpret the father absence, not [00:35:00] as the father was busy, but he doesn’t love me. And so they internalize a sense of.

unworthiness might stay there forever. Because that sense of unworthiness then recreate a secondary trauma, a constellation of trauma. So they put themselves in a situation that is familial, that reinforce the sense of being unworthy. So they will date the, um, toxic woman, they will end up in, in, in, in, in a self destructive situation.

And so your work is really important to give this container where men can say, Yes, I start doing that because I lost my authenticity because I wanted to get my father attachment back. And that’s create all this trauma.

Rudy: There is a, a beautiful theory about it. I think it’s in the book of, uh, No More Mr. Nice Guy. I don’t know if you have read that. I forgot the author now [00:36:00] for a moment. But, um, so basically he says that through the industrial revolution, men were taken away from the home. Yeah, before boys were always surrounded by other men on the land, you know, by the cousins, the adults, their father and grandfather and all that.

So with the industrial revolution, the man went away. So the boys at home lost their role model. When the father came home, he was too tired to play with the kid. So, that’s like the first step. Then the women also started working out, you know, and basically what is happening in the business world, it’s a very masculine energy, it’s hard masculine energy as we say, you know, it’s very competitive, it’s all about efficiency, you need to be arrogant, you need to be like standing your ground, all these things like hard masculinity.

So, the women then also took that type of energy, but still took care of the children. So, again, the boys didn’t have the father role that is there to hold the space, you know. And so now we’re in [00:37:00] this, I think, second or third generation of men already. Who are very feminine because they have been raised by feminine energy mostly and have been lacking this masculine energy.

And then women also took over a lot of masculine energy, which is the hard masculine energy or the toxic masculinity. This is why couples have such a difficult time to actually come together. because they’re not in their right energy. So this is also the work we do with heart masters is about what is masculine energy?

What is your healthy, good, strong, masculine energy? And what is the feminine energy? So, and this is what, uh, she does with heroines, what I do with unconditioned men. And that’s how we come together to really go back to our core energy levels. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing, amazing work. Okay. It’s time for the heroines now. So tell us, how did your personal story that you shared Then, um, give you the incentive to, to then create the heroines.

What is it about? How does it work? 

Canay: The heroines [00:38:00] is, um, a community, a platform where I specifically focus on designing conscious business models for the emerging new world. together with woman while they are harmonizing their feminine and masculine energy, but show up with courage that to birth to this new world.

And in the process of birthing, uh, my two birds have been very impactful on me. They were both natural birds, but one of them took 27 hours. I was almost dead and my daughter was almo, almost dead, and I, I made the mistake of pushing too hard for too many hours and that is like the summary of my also business life.

Push too much, try to overachieve, try to compete with men who have the advantage and otherwise. you will, you won’t succeed. And what is not succeeding is not just about some ego thing. We need to make [00:39:00] money. We need to vote. We need to be heard so that we have an influence in the systems that are being designed.

And as a conscious business model designer, I can see all the codes. When we are looking at the education, the food, the media, they are all based on the success metrics of designed. Business models that are unconscious because we thought extracting from nature, uh, high speed growth and profit oriented mechanisms that didn’t care about the well being of humans who are part of the system is a smart business.

It is not. We are killing ourselves. We are killing each other. We are killing the planet. That’s why, um, I thought during COVID and I felt who I can go on a mission, on a journey. Who can understand it, who are open to it, because I don’t have all the energy to convince people. I’m so way beyond it now. And who [00:40:00] would dare to take action?

And I thought, women who have the capacity to give birth, regardless of their choice to do so, are ready. During COVID, most of the leaders that I was talking to didn’t know what to do, but guess what? Most of the women were ready. to walk towards that darkness. Nobody knew. It’s our capacity of birthing. And we have an advantage that we, through our menstruation, we are very connected to moon cycles, to nature.

We are intuitive and we have these capacities that intelligence, why not to use it? It is time. So I invited women that I know who are already successful in business to come together and to design conscious business models and to prototype new success metrics for the new emerging world. And that community grew.

Now we are almost a hundred women around the world. And what I now know is that I started this like let’s claim our power. But now [00:41:00] I know it’s not just about the power. It’s about the responsibility that feminine energy needs to be integrated, and women need to take their part in their being. We are, and we are woman, and we don’t need to do a lot of things to compete with others.

When we are in our presence of this beautiful feminine energy, harmonized and supported with the masculine energy, then we also allow men to do things more consciously. But without woman’s, um, womb, we are the womb of humanity. If we can hold space for men. Then together, we can totally change everything in one night.

I am a strong believer that the shift in the consciousness will result in changing anything and everything. We are limitless, and nature supports us because the well being is our priority. Uh, state of being. [00:42:00] In the heroines, uh, we take annual journeys, we call them heroine’s journey. You know, we are very accustomed in the Hollywood scripts, you, you are very knowledgeable about it to the hero’s journey.

And the heroine’s journey starts where the hero’s journey ends. This personal victory is not any more sufficient to, to humanity that the heroine of the story. And she takes a journey of embracing her feminine self, which is the mother, which is the nature. And then only then. We start taking, um, understanding that we are one with nature, the great mother, and the heroine’s journey has the elements of being a community instead of a solo hero slaying the dragons.

And the heroine’s journey also has the, um, archetypes where there are weak ones. And there are invited to the community and it becomes a whole container for everyone. And for example, the [00:43:00] Dorothy story in the Wizard of Oz is a perfect example of a heroine’s journey. And in these annual journeys, we design conscious business models, we prototype them, we design new ways of communication.

But for me, the participants, the women. Our, my real focus, our transformation, ending the sexism within us and taking our power with new feminine energy is what I am working with, with these participants. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing. Amazing. I’m blown away. This is so well said and powerful and empowering. Let’s I will just spend, let’s go back a little bit for people to understand because, okay, let’s remind our listener.

What is the hero’s journey? He’s a Joseph Campbell. Uh, the mythologies. What is a hero journey? And maybe just repeat how any in which way the herring journey start when the hero journey ends. 

Canay: The hero’s journey starts with the seeking that the [00:44:00] hero understands this as his life doesn’t work for him anymore.

Like in Rudy’s story, my story, that was a dead end, right? It’s not for us anymore. And the hero needs to take an adventure. Where he goes through very difficult, dangerous times, where he faces his weakness, his own mortality, and then appears in his life, the sage, the guides, the protectors. And he then understands that he is the hero.

He claims his power. He slays the dragons and save the day. This is the hero’s journey. When the hero’s journey ends, that community and that wisdom, the heroine’s journey starts. Because the, now this is also with COVID, we understood we were heroes, right? We developed the technology, we had the business, we had unlimited, um, opportunities ahead us.

There is nothing we cannot do as humanity is what we understood. And this is like the last couple of years consciousness, but something was missing. heroine’s journey [00:45:00] starts. We understand we were separated from our feminine energy. We didn’t respect the feminine, the divine mother, the nature. And when we disconnected from that part of us, which is life, it didn’t satisfy us.

There doesn’t need to be a danger outside. We created by separating ourselves from nature in so many ways. And the heroine’s journey is a total different attitude. The journey is a community journey. The journey is about being whole humans and also humbly accepting that you are nature. This magnificent power is only available to you and visible to you when you humble yourself.

And this psyche, this, this silo thinking of humanity is, I see is ending. There is a new era. There is a new world. where the new humanity is rising, understanding we are nature. 

Giancarlo (2): We are part of [00:46:00] nature. We’re not the boss of nature. 

Canay: We cannot be the boss of nature because we are nature. So when you start saying, I’m the boss or I’m the slave, there is a separation.

And this is what we do in the heroine’s journey. I have innovated a method called 5D values. For example, Giancarlo, we can say, Oh, I care about nature, right? Like there are a lot of protests and Beautiful conversations, books written, research happening. And now nature is our focus because our survival depends on her now, like how we understand her and how we harmonize ourselves and our systems with her.

But then when I am, uh, inviting leaders to design businesses, starting with their values, I noticed many leaders still to this date are starting from a very victim level. If I ask, what is nature to you, they start saying, Uh, nature is very important because otherwise we are not gonna, we are not gonna leave.

And they start blaming other people. It’s because of them, [00:47:00] these oil companies, this is happening. And there’s a lot of anger and shame and guilt and like, catastrophe in the people think when I say nature, when I think of nature, if I get into this mode of blaming others, You are already creating a lot of separation.

That is not natural. That is not harmonious. So I invite them, okay, let’s move to the second level. Convince me why I should care about nature. And this is where the leader start having empathy to the others. If you talk to the Boss of an oil company, you need to get in his shoes and understand he’s a part of a bigger machine.

And in order for him to change that big machine, you need, he needs to do a lot of things. And instead of blaming them, how we can invite them for action that is also relatable to him and that is advantages to him. So then you need to start talking with business metrics that how conscious business can be also a smart business.

So it shifts, you. And it’s, you start [00:48:00] creating a relationship with the person that you normally blame. But that is also a very masculine energy that’s convincing. It’s a very entrepreneur, uh, energy that we see with lean innovation and all those pitch your, pitch your startup, but we are, we need to move even beyond that.

And that is the third level where I might. at the leader to start seeing the abundance off the value that they seek for. And this is a channel or consciousness where you are in the gratitude energy. And I say, can you tell me the abundance of nature? We are lucky we are in Ibiza, but anywhere people start seeing the particles, the, the, the, um, energy of nature being available, even in each breath.

So it relaxes the mind and you drop in your heart and you start harmonizing with that energy that you were once seeking for. And on the fourth level, we come to the I am consciousness. And I invited to say, [00:49:00] I am my value. I am nature. And Giancarlo, when you say I am nature, your voice changes, your heart changes.

expands, and then you start becoming that value that once you were seeking for. And actually, as humans, if we understand our capacity, when we become what we want, then there is no separation. And from that energy from that level, if we start designing our business models, our communication strategies, our relationships, our technologies, then that’s a totally different story.

But we need to be that to do that. 

Giancarlo (2): Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, guys. So, um, uh, you would then will join forces the unconditional man and the heroines on October 1st to 50 here in Ibiza for the heart masters conference. Where you’re going to explore, um, all this methodology you described to [00:50:00] create systems of peace.

People, I strong, if you, if you like what you heard, I recommend, do you still have some spots available? 

Rudy: We have a couple of spots available. Yeah. 

Giancarlo (2): So where, where people can subscribe and find more heart masters. com regenerate x. co regenerate x. co. Okay guys. Now, if you allow me, I wanted to be a little cheeky.

Because, because, you know, Mango TV is an evolving platform, but mostly, you know, the themes explored are based, or rather, my curiosity started with the documentary from Mangusta Production and one documentary was called Monogamish on consensual non monogamy. We have another feature called Estado Impuro, also about non monogamy.

We’re now licensing, um, sex to spirit about sacred sexuality. Um, so this topic of non monogamy, polyamory, sacred [00:51:00] sexuality is that we would like to explore. Um, I recently did an ISTA level one in August, which I cannot recommend enough. Um, for me it was, um, like, have you heard about the Offman process?

It’s the, it’s a weak group psychoanalytical program in, uh, in California and New York. Um, and anyway, it’s, it’s very well respected, very expensive. And I feel that ISTA level one It’s a better off man. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s all about, you know, identify your blind spot and your pain bodies. And there’s a lot of tools to deal with that.

Um, and there is this topic of sacred sexuality, which is really, you know, catching my interest. I feel that, um, nowadays, you know, people think that the sexual revolution has brought So much [00:52:00] freedom and so much joy, but it’s not really true, you know, all these statistics I follow an English podcaster called Chris Williamson because he went very deep in studying the state of affair of sexuality among, you know, Gen X and Millennial.

And it’s not a good look. Apparently, one third of men under 30 have not had sex for the last year. There’s all this incest group, involuntary celibacy that is growing up everywhere. Women are more and more, um, objectifying their bodies. They’re, there’s, the only fun is incredible phenomenon where all these young girls want to be, you know, be paid to be naked.

So, where am I going with that? So, basically, I would like to explore, to the extent that you feel comfortable, of course, what is your approach with sex and sexuality, non monogamy, in that, in that, [00:53:00] you know, more, um, more intimate container. And, um, yes, I’m curious to see how you guys, you came together in such a powerful way.

You felt, okay, you are the one I was waiting for. Now, seven years later, Are you still keeping this power and this enthusiasm? How do you, what are your tricks and secret to keep the energy, the enthusiasm? How do you keep your triggers at bay? Do you have code work? We want the secret of your longevity. 

Rudy: Who wants to go first?

Giancarlo (2): Rudy. 

Rudy: I think, um, you know, first, yeah, to pick on all what everything you said there, I think we live in this concept and belief systems that we need to be individualistic, perform, compete and all that, which leaves people with like, Oh, there’s no other life. If I hear many people and I’m in lots of these man’s group, I hear all these discussions and I see this.

There’s this new trend of men [00:54:00] just, they don’t want any, they sometimes they are married, but they don’t want any sexual life any longer. They just purely focus on competition, being efficient, and I want to make it. You know, and that, 

Giancarlo (2): but so, so, so what for these people, sex is just a waste of time. 

Rudy: Yeah.

They say it like they, they say, I don’t wanna waste my time. Well, 

Giancarlo (2): but, so let’s repeat, why do we think sexuality is important? Maybe . Yeah. So, so, but no, but 

Rudy: that’s it. So, you know, at, at one point you need to realize that there’s an entire other life on the other side of that belief system that is so anchored within, you know, and it’s full of addiction, like porn addiction and consumer addiction and whatever type of addictions, alcoholism, and all that.

So, um, and mental health issues also derive from that. So it’s really important that, you know, men take the step also to, like, connect to themselves and like, because if a man is not connected to himself, how can he give love to another woman? That’s the first step. If I’m just in, or I’m just meeting women to perform and to, you [00:55:00] know, this is, I was in that period for a whole, you know, maybe two decades of my life also.

Traveling the world, meeting a lot of women. And even if I was monogamous with my wife and all that, but in between I had periods when I was like, you know, dating a lot, but just like, to perform also. Then you think that, okay, that makes you feel good just for a moment, you know, it makes you just believe, or it just makes you leave your pain and not having to think about your pain.

But it’s really about when a man is connecting to his authentic self that he can give real love to a woman. And I think this is what happened to us, you know, when we met, we could see each other’s beauty and heart and like, what is, I could see that woman is like, wow, what is in that woman? She’s so powerful and all that and, and, and, but also she had that femininity.

I could see that she was very masculine, you know, like she was very also. Still in that world of performing and in Turkey as a woman, you have to stand your way because it’s [00:56:00] a very macho culture. So, but then I could also see that, you know, femininity of like, and this is what we lack in the world. The femininity that we see on social media is not femininity, you know, it’s not the real femininity.

It’s not the real femininity that is open. It’s an 

Giancarlo (2): illusion. 

Rudy: That is welcoming the man with all his, you know, faults and mistakes and whatever situation he’s in. Women are here to hold the man. masculinity, to hold the man and give him strength again, to say like, it’s okay, you know, we can do this together.

And this is what is lacking. But I think only when we are in this mode and we, to our relationship, we have been going through, you know, like, I think all the different steps is one can go in and very fast rhythm. You know, we go very fast. We’re very fast learners. And we like to experiment also. So we, We try a lot of new things and, and for me also there has been at some point we opened up for example, and for me it was a whole process [00:57:00] that I had never lived as a man because I was always the one taking other women, yeah, or going with other women.

But then Janai showed me that also when she decides to open up, and I had to go through everything that a man can feel like. Jealousy and you know, what is this happening, you know, so there was, 

Giancarlo (2): there was this decision of opening up. Yes. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. So how long ago was that? 

Rudy: A couple of years ago, I think.

Yeah. For probably the second year in Ibiza. You know, Ibiza is like when you arrive, you know, and then you get all the excitement and all the parties and then we were totally open up and I was in principle, I was okay with it. I was very open. I was okay with it. We talked about it. But then I didn’t know how my subconscious would react.

And then all this, you know, negative emotions came up within me. And I had to deal with that. That was a whole process [00:58:00] just for me, like, you know, and then I would say, thank you, Janai, for showing me that because I had never lived that as a man. I had never, ever been jealous as a man in my life. So that was also, I think, for me, a cathartic moment of like, going through processes.

But that’s also another thing. I see a lot of people doing. Meditation, holistic health, and all that, but they’re sitting 10 years on top of the mountain, but then when you come into a relationship, you still need to go to integrate all that wisdom, because it’s pure projection, right? And I think with Janai, I’m blessed that she’s showing me all the beauty that life is, you know, all the challenges at the same time, but the challenges also come because we have the belief system that we need to suffer.

We are suffering because we’re in a belief system, system of blame and shame and, and guilt from the Catholic, you know, in Europe it’s mainly Catholic or Protestant or whatever religion you are. But that is our subconscious. That is our [00:59:00] training, right? So if you want to break through that, you really need to break through that.

So you need to live it also through the suffering to break through that. But, uh, I believe that we have been suffering enough. We don’t need to suffer. There is another life also possible. 

Giancarlo (2): Wow, you guys are so brave. I didn’t know you went through this process. But so, and if you don’t mind me asking, how is it going for you now, this opening situation?

Do you Then we’ll go to her just to finish. 

Rudy: We are, I think we are open because we are just, uh, 

Giancarlo (2): But it’s like don’t ask, don’t tell, or you share everything? 

Rudy: We share, we share everything basically. And like this summer, before the summer, we had a, like a, a difficult couple of months because we were not connected to each other.

We are focused on work and getting things done and then, uh, co parenting and all the things. Yeah. And then we during the summer, we had some couple of days alone again, and it was really beautiful because we could reconnect basically to each [01:00:00] other because we are very deeply connected. Our souls are connected and we are, you know, we love each other where there’s love.

I think as a man, you need to be First, understand gratitude, you know, gratitude for life, you know, what it is, what it is that we are here for. You need to be able to be compassionate, to be, you know, like also know the beauty of, um, appreciation, you know, and self love, you know, you need to love yourself to love the other.

If you don’t love yourself, you cannot create love with somebody else. So that’s basically bottom line, yeah. So as long as you are not there. You need to work to get there, I would say. 

Giancarlo (2): Well, I’m impressed. You guys are such a cool, modern couple. You know, at Ista, they always talk about, um, this idea of, um, you know, to what extent not only desire is acceptable, but also how desire is maybe healing, and how pleasure [01:01:00] is healing, and how all these men that repress their lust for other woman outside the couple, you know, it, it, it seeds, you know, it’s, it’s like, it’s like, it’s like resistance.

It’s like shadows that build up, uh, but it’s very difficult in our culture with the Judeo Christian morality. for, you know, to, to, to go, you know, to open up. I feel that many people won’t, but nobody can really do it successfully. 

Rudy: Yeah. Because that desire is also an addiction. It’s not, it’s not a truthful desire from the heart.

It’s a desire from the mind. 

Giancarlo (2): Okay. But so how do you find How do you find, how do you do the distinction? 

Rudy: It’s when you connect through your heart, basically, that you know that, you know, what you desire is something different, because the mind is always dividing, the heart is always inviting, [01:02:00] yeah? So, and, and, It’s, I, I think because men are locked into that belief system and these codes and they need to break through because they’re constantly blocked of things, have a desire to break through something, but it’s, that’s not the real desire of the heart, it’s the desire of the mind.

Yeah. So that’s why we have so many addictions and, and they are just like fast, fast, fast type of, um, you know, dopamine, uh, injections while we need serotonin type of, uh, Injections, which are more like the long term. What is it that I see? What is my vision for the long term? How do I behave? What is my commitment to myself?

What is my willpower to go to where I want to go? Instead of just looking at, I need this now, I need that now, I need this now, I need that now. Yeah, which is the society we live in. 

Giancarlo (2): But so, Rudy, forgive me, and you know, again, if I’m stepping, if I, you know, stepping some boundaries, you can tell me, [01:03:00] um, how do you deal with the feeling of the other person?

I mean, how do you position Yeah. So you guys are allowed to have, um, you know, other, other affairs. So the couple, uh, I mean, do you, they’re all there once only, okay. Or you’re allowed to have a secondary partner. 

Rudy: We are basically open, you know, so, but it hasn’t happened recently. It hasn’t happened because we are very much in love with each other and we respect each other.

And also we know, I think it’s important if you’re in a relationship that you know, the sensitivities of the other person, because when there’s trauma. There is hurt. So either you process that together, but yeah, you don’t want to add oil on the fire, you know, if you, because you live in a conscious relationship, you, you care about the other, not just yourself.

When we’re in personal desire, it’s I care for myself. It’s my desire. I don’t care about the other. And love is about, you know, making things happen with others, right? [01:04:00] 

Giancarlo (2): Interesting. So maybe nothing really is happening. It’s just having permission that allow, do not feel the pressure, but then you don’t need to act on the permission.

Exactly. It’s interesting. And how was for you the opening process and how are you living being an open couple? 

Canay: So I think to give a bit of background, um, I’m, I’m a Turkish woman coming from an Islamic And, uh, Rudi is Belgian, uh, he’s very open to many things, uh, he’s 20 years older than me, uh, we have five kids and we don’t have kids together actually biologically, we are different cultures, different, um, belief systems, so our union is very extraordinary.

Uh, which I love, you know, we, we are integrating, harmonizing, not just ourselves and what couples can be like, uh, or what partners, we are also business partners, uh, can, [01:05:00] can be together, but also how different religions, cultures, generations harmonize. So I now know the responsibility of it. So it is not individual.

And I don’t agree with the word permission. I can say consent, consent, which is consent is very important because this is a relationship and a relationship is like a child. You need to nurture, care, and see the growth, but not over control. But um, permission is like, first, do you give yourself the consent to be who you are?

I, I, I couldn’t, um, I couldn’t really navigate pleasure and I’m 41 years old. I’m still learning. I’m just learning. I’m in the beginning. And Rudy has been my portal towards that, like without shame and guilt, can I be me without body shaming, without feeling sinful because I’m enjoying it too much. So I’m a learned learner.

[01:06:00] And I didn’t know how to be in a relationship. Remember my story? So I’m, I’m learning how to be in a relationship. So what I know is business and design and innovation. So what we have been doing with Rudy is that, okay, what are the principles to a good innovation? You know, you, you change worlds and there are a couple of principles.

Communication is so important and communication. I don’t mean this is what I want and just like deal with it. It’s like listening. Understanding, not just understanding mentally, but also, um, sometimes others, others can say things in order to please you, but you can’t, you can’t tell me tonight. It’s okay.

But is it really? You can sense as a woman in so many details, whether your man is there or not. And I skipped some of those processes. I didn’t do it right. I, but I learned from it. So this is the innovation of relationships. So [01:07:00] don’t, uh, my suggestion is that don’t jump into things that are so unknown and that are mentally okay, but how your body reacts and we are spiritual beings.

You are carrying your ancestors. It’s not just two people, three people in the bed. It’s whole. whole community. But we need to be very sensitive about these things. There are after effects. And in our relationship, now I have my daughters, like, They are my daughters and we are living in the same house. It is not just Rudy and Janai anymore.

And also you are living in a community. There is a culture. Ibiza is like super free and independent, but I totally would, uh, invite people to consider the cultural, um, values and respect them within their, within their culture. So there is no yes or no or dark or white or right or wrong. And there’s nothing like that.

It is a navigation system, and it is [01:08:00] a human innovation, cultural innovation. It’s a relationship innovation. I would recommend the communication part is so important, which we are doing fantastic now. But especially to women, you know, I want to say, respect your, yourself. Respect yourself. Your our bodies are temples.

This womb is giving birth to new humans, to new roads, to new opportunities. We are holding the space. So woman respecting themselves is a total different story. It’s a new dimension. And this is what also we are doing with the heroines and also respect your men. Like, just because there is a mistake, there is also like something wrong.

Okay. In the relationship. Also for men to respect woman, let’s don’t disrespect each other. Like you might be hurt. Focus on your hurt, deal with it. And if you want to be in a relationship with that person, respect that person. And even if you are separated, [01:09:00] respect that person. I hear so many people talking about each other in, in their friendship groups.

Don’t do that. Respect your man, even when he’s not there. Because when you respect your man or all your relationships, it is a sign of self respect, and this is the nucleus of all creation. You cannot piss there and expect a healthy relationship out of it. And that respect doesn’t need to be even verbalized or expressed when you are thinking of your partner.

If he, if it’s not blissful, amazing, respectful ideas, you need to change the way you are thinking. I’m not saying stick to a relationship that doesn’t work for you, but I’m saying be your best because intimate relationships are amazing opportunities to see who you are and what you need. If you keep on changing the mirror or put a hundred mirrors in one room to see yourself and keep on moving them.

It is chaos. It is chaos for me. Maybe there are people who can [01:10:00] organize it better, but I am very good with one partner right now, and I don’t expect it to change. Right now, because I love seeing my truth in the mirror of pure love of Rudy, I’m so lucky and I’m so grateful. And our experience has been also a reminder of how I can respect him more, myself more, and how we can innovate our relationship with the principles that apply not just to relationship, but any domain of life and business.

And the other thing I would like to add is pleasure is not just bounded with sex. Pleasure is everywhere. It can be also in the office, in your business, even when you are preparing a report. But you know there is the Sufi love that is in the heart and that is connected to all life and the creators. And when you are in that type of love, that bliss, that pleasure, you can be happy.

That burning [01:11:00] heart is available, not just to your body, but you can have a total orgasm in your mind, in your spirit, in your everyday life, we can fall in love and we can have orgasms on all levels without seeking the superficial, um, uh, way that the media is exposing now, you know, to our also children, we need to, we need to allow ourselves to receive pleasure of divine love.

Without seeking anything outside of us, but creating beautiful relationships because this is how we exist. 

Giancarlo (2): Beautifully said. And if we’re talking about growth, um, you know, the couple is the ideal container because it’s a constant sounding board with the triggers, right? You know, living together in an environment and working together and parenting together.

There’s moment of disagreement that sometimes [01:12:00] go deeper than just the event, you know, it’s just a trigger from childhood and the other person reaction is a signal. So it’s like, um, like a relationship, a committed relationship is like a constant couple therapy. We use, my wife and I, we constantly use each other for therapy.

I see her reaction to my words, and when I see that she gets triggered, I, you know, there is, we always need to break it down. And so why did you feel this way? Why do you feel this way? So it’s, um, It’s a, it’s a, it’s, it’s really a container for growth that, that, um, and we feel that, you know, as much as it’s tempting this idea of having some freedom outside the couple because it is very tempting.

Right now we feel that, you know, we’re still, okay, let me say that there is a, um, a mathematical metaphor that my [01:13:00] friend told me, which is, of course it’s not true, it’s just a metaphor. It says that if you want a couple which is 100 percent whole, you need two people that are 100 percent whole. Anything less than 100 would accentuate the gap.

So if you’re 100, 100, you can have 100. But if you’re 90, 90, already is 81 gap. If you’re 77, you know, 77, uh, you are, um, 49. If you’re 66, you’re 36. So the gap in not being whole in each one accentuates the cumulative gap. So it’s just a metaphor, but I feel there’s some truth to it. And we feel that, um, you know, for opening up, you really need to have all your chakras in sync.

So, you know, you need, you need to have a complete connection and then, and then, and then under certain circumstances is possible. You know, I have, we have a lot of, um, non [01:14:00] monogamous friend that are very happy that also uses, you know, if you do this practice of non monogamy also from the heart with respect, authenticity and communication, that it’s even more a tool for growth.

Because the sexual domain, the sexual sphere accentuates the insecurities, the pain body, the demons. That’s what a little bit they do at Ista in those temple night. They say that, you know, the eros, the erotic environment make, make, um, Ista use this tradition of calling the pain body, the shadows, the demon, they call them buffalo.

Which is in the tradition of Castaneda, I can’t remember the name. And so, they say that, you know, Istan, in a way, it’s a course to help you hunting the buffalo. You know, to deal with your pain bodies. And they say, you know, the buffalo, they’re not always visible. And when they are, you really need to be precise, but [01:15:00] also loving and patient.

And they say that basically the erotic realm, the sexuality realm, acts make the buffalo more visible for you to hunt them. And, and it’s true. I, you know, it’s true. It’s definitely true. It’s, it’s a very delicate. and very personal. But it is true. And in the movie Monogamy, you can see that monogamy, it’s a very recent concept, you know, like in the history of humankind, men and women are whenever monogamous or either the men in post monogamy to the woman because they want to make sure that the child was theirs for the inheritance, for the estate.

And then with the sexual revolution of the sixties, You know, woman impose the same restriction to men. So since then, now, you know, reciprocal monogamy is a 50 years old experiment. It’s very recent. It’s not working because 60 percent of marriages end up in divorce. And it’s not even natural. You know, Christopher Ryan and Sex at Dawn spent years studying all the species.

[01:16:00] And they said there’s not one single species who’s monogamous. People says, ah, the Napoleon penguins are monogamous. You remember that movie March of the Penguin, you know, religious congregation would, would rent space to show how monogamous the penguin was. But they were, they were monogamous for one year.

What about elephants? The elephants are not monogamous. Even the swan, they mate for life, but they have the sex outside the couple. So in monogamish, we ask the question, what is it? of a construct that is not working, is very recent, and is not natural. But yet, we take it as a default system, and we beat ourselves down if we’re not good at it.

And the answer is, you know, the Judeo Christian morality and the government that, you know, is banking on the couple for all the advantage to create. nuclear family that can take care of themselves outside of the government. You know, there’s this lawyer in the, in the movie that talks [01:17:00] about Diana Adams.

Um, okay, guys, we’ve been together already an hour and 15 minutes in term of practical advice. You know, you mentioned respect communication. Do you guys have like, um, schedule like every Monday we write, we meet or something like that? 

Canay: Yes, because it’s so confusing when you do business together, co parent live in a country where you don’t have your family to support you.

And there’s so many things to do. So what we started doing with Rudy first, we have Annual programs where we, uh, spend time together as a family, but we also have our separate uh, vacations. Nice. So space is very important, Rudi having his own time, me having my own time is so important. How many weeks per year to 

Giancarlo (2): be?

Canay: So this year it has been, uh, like four weeks already. I think when we were in different countries, correct? Around four weeks. 

Rudy: Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. 

Canay: Also, uh, weekly we have a [01:18:00] date night. It’s not just important for us, but also my daughters to grow up seeing this is a relationship. This is how men and women can exist.

And they, they understand there is parenting, but there is also a romantic relationship. So I believe it’s like so important for children to witness such, um, decisions. Also 

Giancarlo (2): date night happens outside the house. 

Canay: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Not with the kids. Of course, of 

Giancarlo (2): course. One, one. Once, once a week. 

Canay: Once a week. Uh, also, uh, we have our own rooms.

We sleep together, but there are times that we sleep alone. For me, it is very important that I can be in my own energy and I can rest myself. Um, not just mentally, physically, but also spiritually. And he likes also having his own space. So it’s an energetic, um, respect that we are providing for each other.

Also, the most important thing actually we [01:19:00] are doing to strengthen our relationship and to be resilient in, in, in times of stress. This, you cannot just act when things happen. You need to prepare yourself a healthy soil. And for us, that is, um, eating well, not drinking, you know, things that are bad to our bodies.

Uh, we do a lot of exercise sports. We started like really committed this summer and, uh, we do what is good for our health and wellbeing. And if you are good. then you can do anything. But if you’re not good, you can tell me all the reasons why we should be monogamous or not. It’s just mental. Your body needs to be ready for it.

So that is the container we are providing for each other. I’m working a lot on myself to end my inner sexism that I used to be angry with men. So I do a lot of internal work to be in peace with my man and to respect him and [01:20:00] to hold space for him. Also, uh, we do a lot of gratitude exercises, uh, every day we wake up, we meditate and we have, uh, an ever evolving script of making commitments, putting our intentions and, uh, some things that we repeat to just seal the day, you know, like start the day together.

It’s so powerful. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing. Amazing. Rudy, tell us a little bit. 

Rudy: Yeah, I think as a man for myself, morning routine is very important. You know, that time for yourself where you connect to yourself. So, you know, I do the, I go out in nature first or I run or I walk with the dogs and I do my yoga, my meditation and I set my intentions.

I think living with intention and manifestation is very important. Intention and 

manifestation. 

Rudy: Yeah, also that we, uh, we always dream together. Where do we want to go next? Like, for example, before the summer we had the idea, okay, we’re in Ibiza, this amazing [01:21:00] space, place. Uh, we’re going to do our retreats here because everybody wants to come here.

This is amazing, but then during the summer we progressed and actually, oh, we’re But this concept can go anywhere. So why not go to Bali? Why not go to Mexico, Costa Rica, wherever we are invited? Yeah, we can go and we can travel the world around. And even our children, we broke through a, uh, let’s say a blockage which was like, In Europe, you need to stay with the children because they need to go to school.

But what about if you can break through that? If you can take them with you, and while they can be schooled on the way, on the road, because they meet so many amazing people who are masters themselves in like, What is it, how we can raise our children differently because I think also as long as we don’t apply what we learn ourselves or what we have learned to our children, nothing is going to change because they are the next generation.

So if we put them in the same system that I was part of, like [01:22:00] I was raised 50 years ago. You 

Giancarlo (2): can’t expect different results. 

Rudy: Exactly. So, and we are now also, I think, ready to, you know, break through that, you know, blockage and that’s going to be our next, you know, like. Conscious challenge that we put for ourselves, you know, like to keep life exciting because we always move forward.

We always go somewhere else. We always move forward and break through something that keeps it also exciting. So I think, but yeah, stay connected to yourself. Be grounded. Be centered. It is very important for a man to hold space to, you know, your woman and then your children and then also, you know, Your community and to build on those, uh, stronghold principles of like yeah.

Build a new type of community where men can heal, women can heal, and we can move together into a new direction that is unknown as of now, because a lot of people are scared of that. Like, you know, I know. Yeah. Some men, they tell me like, Rudy, I’m not gonna go there. What you do. It’s, it [01:23:00] scares me, you know?

’cause there’s no role models yet. It’s too early. So we need a lot, we need to build the role models ourselves. 

Giancarlo (2): Amazing. How old are your daughters that you live with? 10 and 11, yeah. 

Canay: One thing I would like to add to what Rudy is saying, I think more and more, Giancarlo, we are noticing our place, not just in our relationship as Janai and Rudy, but also within our families and within our communities.

I think there is a lot of thirst and hunger for people to understand that relationships can be healthy, that they can be free, they can be growing, and they can be also in service to humanity. And for us, now, um, we are becoming also grandparents. In couple of weeks, Rudi’s daughter is giving birth. And I see myself now, you know, I’m a daughter.

I’m a mother. Now I’m becoming a grandmother. So what is my heritage? You know, like, just not just for me, but also [01:24:00] for my daughters and for people around us. What is the story we are writing with our intelligence, with our willpower as humanity that is more advanced than any other animal and any other species on earth.

Like we have that responsibility of putting the intention of we can be in relationships. There are free, liberating, growing, and in service to humanity. And from there, I invite everybody to do their own design. There is no right or wrong. There is only innovation from the heart. 

Giancarlo (2): But always on the solid pillar of respect and communication.

Canay: I couldn’t figure out another way yet. Let me put it this way. 

Giancarlo (2): Okay, guys, that was amazing. You are really an example. Both individual as a couple. Um, yeah, someone else I can’t remember told me that the secret of a happy relationship is to have three journeys. You know, my [01:25:00] journey, your journey, and the journey together and having this balance of energy, you know, sometimes Someone gives too much energy to the other person’s journey not enough to do their own Some you know, my wife really find her purpose and their calling only a few years ago She’s been preparing for that all her life studying yoga meditation and then the Gabor Mata compassion inquiry and then You The Jim Fadiman microdosing protocol and, and, and now it came together here in Ibiza and I can see how our relationship is really went to the next level because now she has her own journey, she has her own space, she has her own career and, uh, and it’s the relationship is much more balanced.

Then when, then when we were in New York. 

Rudy: Yeah, I think it’s, yeah, a personal journey is important, but you need to dream together. You need to have that dream together. And the journey together. People are not [01:26:00] dreaming enough, you know. We also always, uh, help people or ask people like, what do you dream?

Where do you want to be in one year, in three years, in five years? What do you dream? 

Giancarlo (2): There’s so much self limitation. 

Rudy: Exactly, and then mostly when we look back, we always. Or, or even beyond what we dreamt like a couple of years ago. So keep dreaming, I would say. 

Canay: And I really like, um. To see you shining and Stephanie shining, uh, you know, by just looking at a person, you can understand whether they are in a healthy relationship, supporting each other, living their own truth or not.

So the relationships are the core to any design, any innovation we want to bring to life. So let’s pay that respect and bring that importance to relationships. 

Giancarlo (2): Thank you for saying that. Also, we were saying when we entered this little recording studio here, which is very intimate, you know, it’s all black.

Shanai remember reminded me that we did the embodied spirituality [01:27:00] workshop together with Jorge Ferrer. Which has been our guest twice on the podcast. I recommend checking his work and and we were it was like this conscious touch this intimate moment together. And now we’re repeating it here, even if more intellectually.

Rudy: Yeah, I wanted to thank you also Giancarlo for all your work you’re doing, you know, in this new realm and you know, psychedelics and plant based medicine and all this research and all this. production you do, like by giving this community a voice. Yeah, because we need examples. This community needs examples.

A lot of people need examples. So I would like to thank you and also wishing you all the best and strength for your future endeavors. You know, we are. Thank you. 

Canay: It’s very rare that courage comes together with professionalism. But also with the joy that you carry an image to all of us. It’s also such a chance to be together in this [01:28:00] beautiful island with such gifts.

Giancarlo (2): Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, um, in terms of, I want to put on the show notes, you know, some website to, um, to find you guys, um, maybe, maybe we’re just going to put it on the show notes. We need to repeat everything. I will have, um, my fantastic production assistant to put all of them, the heroin, the unconditional man, the regenerator X and the hearts master 

Rudy: heart master.

Canay: And we are on LinkedIn and Instagram. Just we love connecting to people who are also on a mission. 

Giancarlo (2): Yes, yes. Reach out to them. They’re very inspiring, inspiring couple. Okay. Thank you everybody. Peace. Thank you. 

Canay: [01:29:00] Peace.