29: Couples Rising: Johann & Rachel on Being in Discovery Together

Rachel Pringle
Website
Instagram

Johann Urb
Website & The Pyramid Breath Method
Instagram

Tao De Ching
Lao Tzu
Bhagavad-Gita
Dammapada
Default Mode Network
Michael Pollan
Bruce Parry
Alejandro Lozano
Daniel Pinchbeck
Maya Magdalena
Peyote
Kriya Yoga
Autobiography of a Yogi
Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga
Vipassana
5-meo-DMT
Alan Watts
Chris Willamson
ISTA
Stan Grof
Holotropic Breath
Monogamish
Esther Perel
Recapture the Rapture
Jorge Ferrer

Giancarlo: [00:00:00] Hello, hi, welcome to this episode of the Mango TV podcast. Today I’m very excited to have Rachel Pringle and Johan Erb. Rachel Pringle grew up in Miami where she overcame great sickness from birth to the age of eight. In and out of hospitals with meningitis, severe asthma, a collapsed lung and multiple broken bones, her first years in this lifetime were about cultivating inner strength and resilience.

Thank you for joining us. This taught her about the divine [00:01:00] intelligence of the body and the irrefutable magic of unconditional love. She specializes in communication alchemy, sensuality through embodiment, trauma release, and dynamic tantra. Her teachings are steeped in the awareness of self and unlocking the body’s physical and emotional contractions to merge with the moment, becoming a master of energy and creation.

Her mission in life is to guide people to their deepest purpose through realigning them with their spirit, their physical form, and affording them the limitless energy and confidence to live the life of their dreams. It sounds like a program. Johan Erb is a master breath work and meditation teacher.

He’s a sought after spiritual teacher and a coach. He has held the daily spiritual practice for over 30 years and is the creator of the pyramid breath method. A unique method of using sound, movement, and optimum oxygena and optimum oxygenation techniques to dramatically shift our [00:02:00] state towards positivity.

Freeing us from past trauma, allowing us to eliminate old belief system, patterns, and habits, and connecting us with our sacred sexuality in a safe and responsible way. Johan has the unique gift of bringing his deep spiritual perspective to his coaching practices. In relationships, finding life purpose, creating healthy habits, conscious communication and experiencing fulfillment.

Welcome, guys. Thank you so much for having 

Johan: us. 

Giancarlo: So just to do a quick context on, uh, on why you guys are here. So it seems like just from your bio, biography, a perfect fit with, uh, Mango TV interest and, uh, and team we’ve been, uh, exploring with documentary and podcast and blog. Um, Mango TV is about studying and learning and understanding personal development, spiritual development, um, uh, sacred [00:03:00] sexuality recently and psychedelic science.

And it seems you guys are perfect for. this new subcategory that we’re going to call Couple Secrets or Couple Longevity Secrets. Um, this is a second episode with, uh, with a couple. And so we’re gonna maybe divide it in two, um, in two parts. One part more about your personal journey and your practice, and then another part about the couple and your intimacy and whatever you want to, to share with me.

So why don’t Rachel, you, you start a little bit with, um, Your personal journey, and in particular, it’s interesting to understand the cathartic moment. You know, sometimes there was, there must be a moment where you decided, Okay, now I’m gonna take care of myself and I’m gonna help others. When, when, uh, Can you take us to that moment?

Rachel: You know, I think that that moment for me started at a very young age, like I, you know, I was sick at a very young age and [00:04:00] for whatever reason in this incarnation, I just found that the best way to deal with that was to be, um, positive about what was happening. And, you know, this is from my parents saying that even despite all of the hospitals and being poked and prodded, and I was still, uh, Happy to be alive.

So I think that that was ingrained in me in, in such a young age. And I, I remember really in middle school days starting to become aware that my energy could affect a room that, um, if I came in happy, it could bring happiness. If I could came in sad, it would bring sadness. And so I, I started to play with that.

And in a, say in a way, like I started coaching my friends. at a very young age of like, you know, you can, you can take this scenario that’s happening and turn it into something that is feeding you versus depleting you, you know, and I think that came from, from being [00:05:00] sick and it just became more enhanced over time.

The older that I got, the more aware I became. The more that I realized that my energy had an influence on everything that I was doing. And you know, I think that moving to New York at a very young age and being, you know, splash across the, the party scene was like a really interesting, um, exploration in going to edges in myself and experiencing edges in other people and realizing that, um, as we keep continue to talk about that people haven’t.

Five to one negativity bias, and I like made it my job to orchestrate scenarios to bring people into positivity because it. was more enjoyable for me to play with. You know, it’s like I couldn’t, I recognize at a very young age that if you’re down there, like I want to go down there and help you up. I don’t want to go down there and sit in there with [00:06:00] you.

Um, because it doesn’t help me or you, you know, it’s like the awareness that you can’t help someone who’s sick by being sick. You can’t help someone get rich by being poor. You know, you have to, to understand where they’re coming from, but like lift them into a a new way of being. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Wow. That’s incredible.

But so what do you think that maturity in a way when you were a young girl being sick, that strength that make you think that, you know, life happened for me, not to me. And, and what, where does strength come from? I mean, you would imagine I’ll tell you, All the people, you know, like giving up and just like, you know, locking themselves in the room with Netflix and popcorn.

Rachel: You know, I think it really was about my parents. I’m so blessed that I have two incredibly beautiful children. Loving parents. I was deeply and profoundly loved as a child. And, [00:07:00] um, and, and also again, just reiterating what my mom said, like I came out that way. She’s like, you know, all you did when you were a baby was smile and sleep and eat and enjoy.

And like, even when you were hooked up to all these tubes, you were still, you know, you would cry when a moment would happen, but then it would switch of like, and I think that. I must have been acutely aware to energy because I recognize now that when, when, um, there was stressful energy in the space, that’s when I would have an asthma attack.

And so I, I sort of made that connection that in order to keep my system calm, I need to keep calm. Right. So, and keep a, um, like the energy around me calm, you know, I was, I was, my parents used to say that I would come into, you know, parties and be like the whisperer of like calming people. And I’m still sort of like that, I would say.

Giancarlo: Amazing. [00:08:00] But your parents were like that also? Yeah. Both of them? Yes. They were very in touch with the external, subtle energies. 

Rachel: Very. Yeah. I would say that my, my father is like so deeply loving and jovial and very, very, very positive human being. Always seeing the, um, You know, the light, the silver lining.

Amazing. Yeah. The glass out. The glass out full. 

Giancarlo: Exactly. Amazing. But so then your medical, um, conditions were resolved. Mm-Hmm. . And, uh, when you said when you arrived in New York, what age ma ? 19. 19. mm-Hmm. . And then there was a moment 

Rachel: where you decided, okay, I’m gonna be a coach. Yeah. I think, you know, speaking of my parents, my mom was the one who, who like gave me that idea at a very, I think I was probably, maybe I was, yeah, I was like 20.

And, um. She like sent me an article and she’s like, I think this is what you’re supposed to do. And I was like, nah, 

Giancarlo: it was 

Rachel: about like the new wave of becoming a life coach. Yes. [00:09:00] And you know, which year are we talking? I don’t want to age you, but just, uh, okay. So that was when I was around 20. So that was 15 years ago.

So not the best with math. Yeah, exactly. And, um, yeah, I, again, at that time it was college and I was recognizing that, um, you know, to be completely honest, it’s like you’re, that was the time when I was partying and experimenting with drugs for the first time. And you know, you’re in these, when you’re coming down from drugs, you’re in this like deeply vulnerable state.

And I ended up just. You know, coaching people through that and, and, you know, hearing about their childhood and giving them a safe space. And like, I’ve always, I think, been a place where people feel safe to express themselves. And I think that’s part of my like scorpionic nature, um, of, of people would have always told me their secrets, um, because I, perhaps a nonjudgmental space.

That’s, that’s definitely how I, [00:10:00] um, operate in a coaching. Container is like nothing you’re gonna say to me It’s gonna be surprising because we’re human beings and work we come here to experience everything. So most of the time people just need a Non reactive space to process and integrate some sort of trauma that they’ve experienced and when they’re greeted with with Compassion and love and like how does that make you feel and you know?

Do you need a hug? Can I hold you? Do you want to cry? And it just does something to people. And I was like, Oh, okay. Like I really, I recognize there was like this quote going around in, in high school about me. It was like middle school and high school. Um, that I used to say all the time, every day that you wake up is the best day of your life.

And so I had this real, sort of like intrinsic knack of, of making myself happy. I knew how to be joyous and happy, and I wanted to help other people feel that way. [00:11:00] 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Amazing. And, um, okay, I want to hear a little bit about Johan, and then we dig a little bit more about the cultural framework and your teachers and.

What journey you took to help others. So how, how was your coming of age of altruism? 

Johan: Um, my journey was a bit different. I was born in, in Soviet Union. Estonia was Soviet Union at the time. And so, you know, the, as you can imagine, the conditions weren’t as, uh, favorable for freedom and love to be expressed in the same way as in other places.

Uh, and then my mom, I had a wonderful family in Estonia, but then my mom and I moved to Finland to escape essentially Soviet Union in 87. And, um, That was quite the traumatic experience for me, because it was, you know, you’re getting out from behind the iron curtain, and you don’t know if you’re ever going to see your family again, and, [00:12:00] uh, it was a, you know, Kalashnikovs, you know, dogs, like, it was, it was crazy.

It’s like you’re leaving prison. 

Giancarlo: But you didn’t move together in 87? No. 

Johan: My mom and I moved together, just me and my mom. 

Giancarlo: Ah, so you, you’re concerned not to see your father again? 

Johan: Well, my dad really wasn’t in my life almost at all until the age of 16. Um, so at that point, my dad was actually a dissident. He was in jail, also KGB put him in jail.

So I had this very interesting family dynamic where part of my family was Sort of KGB and the other part wasn’t, and that was the opposite, you know? And so it was this very wild, uh, upbringing and you know, and obviously as a child you don’t get told any of this, so you find out later. And, um, but for me, at a young age, at that young age, I really shut myself down because I made up.

How, how old were you? I was 10. And so I made up a story in order to survive, I would have to protect myself by completely [00:13:00] turning off my feelings and not showing anybody any weakness, right? So in my mind, and I think this resonates with a lot of men especially, you know, we associate vulnerability as weakness.

And so as a young boy, you know, that’s the story I made up in my mind. I was like, Oh, so if I’m vulnerable, if I’m authentic, I’m weak, I can’t have that because I have no one else to protect me. Yeah. Yeah. And so I created this persona, and in high school in Finland my nickname was, um, Iceman. Because whatever you threw at me, I just pretended like it didn’t affect me.

And obviously on the inside it was like broken glass and I would be, you know, very, I’m a highly sensitive person. So it was this very You 

Giancarlo: remember, you remember you were hurting inside? 

Johan: Oh my god, oh yeah, all the time. You 

Giancarlo: were aware it was a musk? 

Johan: Oh my, majorly. I was, I was suicidal. 

Giancarlo: Wow. 

Johan: You know, and that’s how my journey started because I was, I was, I was definitely very depressed, suicidal.

And um In Helsinki? In Mbba. This was when I was living in the second largest city in Finland at the time where we [00:14:00] ended up, which wasn’t as bad as like the small places, but you know, to them I was, at the time I was, um, a Russian, I was some, you know, I was an, I was the enemy. Uh, you know, even though I was Estonian and you know, to me the Russians took our country and our freedom and, you know, like gets being played out very much right now in Ukraine.

You know, in the Eastern Bloc, everyone’s feeling that same fear again. But, so for me, um, I, my inner journey really started when I, I didn’t know what to do. So I started to, at 14, I started to, at night, close my eyes and go within. And I, you know, I didn’t know about meditation. I hadn’t read about it. I just sort of, I found that when I closed my eyes and I just went in, I felt like I was falling.

Falling, falling, falling, and becoming smaller and smaller and smaller, but then it felt like I was falling in all directions at the same time. Like it was this odd feeling of non space, or space in a way that I’d never experienced before. And then one day when I was [00:15:00] doing this exercise, um, I had an out of body experience where I flew out of my body, my awareness flew out of my body, into a tree, up the park, down the park, you know, back through a tree, into my body, and the whole experience probably took like 15 seconds.

Maybe a little bit more. And I remember, you know, just being totally freaked out. And being like, what the fuck was that? Like, what just happened? And I remember looking at my hand, looking at my body, looking at the room, and going like, everything looks different. But then I was like, is everything different?

Or is it, I’ve just never looked at it before. You just take reality for granted. You know, this is what is. Versus, oh wow, this is a very curious experience. But even going back to childhood, I remember thinking, It’s a whole human experience. So I was like, are we like in a lab? Is this like an experiment?

Like, what is like, everyone else seems like they’re buying into this. I’m like, what 

Giancarlo: is this? A simulation. Yeah. I was 

Johan: like, is this, what is this thing? Like, come on. Like, and I would ask people, I’d be like, do you feel the same way? And [00:16:00] they’d be like, you’re crazy. You know? So, but anyway, going back to that time.

I started, then I got into, um, I was a big sci fi fan at the time, so I depleted the second largest library in Finland of all the sci fi by the age of 15. And then I actually started developing a relationship with my dad as well, and I asked my dad, what should I read next? And he goes, you know, read, read Tao Te Ching, uh, Lao Tzu, read Bhagavad Gita and read, uh, Dhammapada.

And so those are my next three books. And I remember picking, um, Tao Te Ching first and reading the first couple of chapters and crying and laughing at the same time because a part of me and my spirit and my soul remembered the truth. And for the first time in this life, I was like, this makes sense to me.

How it’s being described in this book, it’s like, this makes sense to me. And, and so understanding the, really the yin, the [00:17:00] yang, understanding that you can’t explain the experience, you have to experience it. And still, with words, how do you explain? And, uh, and that got me deeper and deeper into my meditation practice.

And then I am, um, you know, over the years got initiated into different traditions. You know, when I was 16, I came to visit my dad in the States. And he took me to Topanga and basically, through his friends, you know, hooked me up with a bag of mushrooms. And was like, you know, eat these, go to sleep, when you wake up, you’ll know what to do.

And so I was by myself. How old were you then? Sixteen. So I’m by myself, on a mountaintop, in Topanga, I eat the mushrooms, I go to sleep. I wake up, and my world is an, is an Alex Grey painting, literally. It was a double hero dose. And, um, Like, seven grounds. Yeah. And, um, you know, and so, the sky was just eyes.

And I could see through [00:18:00] the world. I could see through my, my, my body, my bones. I could tap into the cosmic library. Um, and I, for the first time in this lifetime, remembered I was spirit. And so I just fucking laughed my ass off from the relief. You know, so you go from being this depressed, suicidal kid, to remembering that you are God, Goddess, Divine, embodied.

And um, and it was, at that time, you know, it really shifted my life radically. Because I got to let go of the story, the narrative, that you are this depressed kid from Estonia, who’s stuck in Finland, who, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? And, and, and so I remember, oh. I’m this being that’s forever and I’m in this body, you know, at the time I maybe couldn’t put those words to it now that I, that I can now, but it was a visceral feeling of remembering.

And that’s, now, you know what, what I teach, what Rachel and I teach is part of the, [00:19:00] the pyramid breath method is how to viscerally not just in your mind by reading books experientially remember. who you really are. And, you know, you can have that feeling with psychedelics, thankfully, and with other medicines, thankfully, but it’s not necessarily sustainable, right?

It’s, you can’t go back to it every single day all the time, it’ll burn out, you become crazy, your brain’s not designed for that. However, our brain is designed to live in that experience when you create it with breath work, with mindset, with meditation, when you are the activator, then it’s sustainable and you can live in that state.

And again, One of my teachers famously said, he said, It’s easy to get enlightened. It’s difficult to stay enlightened. You know, and so, so, you know, so really it’s, it’s, you know, enlightenment is such a loaded word. What does it mean? But really it’s like, it’s easy to remember. That you are divine, it’s difficult to stay and live without remembering.

So therefore, that’s where the spiritual practice comes in, right? [00:20:00] Unfortunately, I think a lot of the older practices require so much time and effort, and can be really tedious, and you have to go and devote your life, and you’ve got to meditate like, you know, hours and hours a day. But these new practices, these downloads that are coming in, and maybe they’re not even new, but they’re just coming in again through us, you make these experiences fun and sexy and enjoyable, and you don’t have to do them as long at a time, so that you don’t create a story that, you know, I don’t have the time for it.

And so what I love about these practices that are coming through, They’re, you know, expressive and fun and wild, and they make you feel so alive and embodied. And you get to remember that feeling of being God, Goddess Divine embodied, at least for a little while until you do it again, maybe for a longer time.

The more and more of us that are doing it, we then create a morphic feel together of holding that frequency. It’s so warm. around each other, you know, even just us [00:21:00] meeting, us being at your gathering the other day, you know, and meeting people for the first time, being like, Ah, you remember, and we together remember, and we create this feel together of remembering that we all can relax into, and it’s a, it’s a gift and a blessing, not just to ourselves and each other, but to the whole world.

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to, I want to dig a little bit deeper on the, on the teaching from the books and the different tradition. But allow me, I want to just make one comment and my listener heard that many times, but I want to repeat it once again. The, the high dose mushroom, now we know from the research from the neuro, neuroscience pharmacologist that have done this psychedelics, this magic mushroom, particularly with people in fMRI, with functioning magnetic resonance imagery.

And you see that basically the psalosabine, the active component of the mushroom, reduce the blood in what they call the default mode network, which is three big hubs in the brain, in [00:22:00] the prefrontal cortex, the thalamus and the medials or something. And, and when, when this default mode network get weakened, Michael Polanyi’s book says it’s like the director of the orchestra of your brain fall asleep.

So now for the first time, all the different pieces, like I explained to my son, I said, I understand. It’s like pillow fight moment. Basically, in your brain, you don’t have the grip of your biography. So you’re not anymore the kid from Soviet Union with this personality. And that allowed to, for the first time, be free and allowed to be who you really are.

it brings back radical authenticity. It’s, it’s, it’s a, you know, I have a goose bump. I have so many people sitting in that chair that they’ve shared how their life was changed by, by a psychedelic experience from Bruce Berry, Bruce Perry, to Alejandro Lozano, to Daniel Pinchback, to almost everybody, Maya Magdalena.

I have, you know, if people are curious, check out the [00:23:00] other podcast, but okay, just to, to stay a little bit on track. Um, So you read this book one was about the Veda and the old Indian teaching one was about Latsu and the third one was about 

Johan: It says is Buddha’s book Dhammapada 

Giancarlo: I see, but so then you was then then you went to Topanga you had your Awakening with the with mushroom and then how?

What was your teachers? What were your masters? 

Johan: So for me? Hmm The next time I went back to the States, I was 17 and then my dad and uncle, we were driving across the country to move from LA to New York and we stopped into the Gila River reservation in Arizona to do a peyote ceremony with the natives.

And, um, You know, that was a powerful experience as well. We do a peyote ceremony at 17, you know, full. It’s not like a, oh, let’s, you know, let’s dance. It’s like, it’s a [00:24:00] full prayer for 10 hours. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s hard. It’s a difficult experience. And I again, had a very powerful, profound experience. Um, and then when I moved to New York, I, um, got into, uh, Kriya Yoga.

And, um, Kriya Yoga, um, you know, I read Autobiography of a Yogi. And then I found a teacher who, uh, came to, Uh, do a initiation in New York, who lived in Canada. And so I went deep into Kriya Yoga. I did three initiations to Kriya Yoga, the last of which is a nine day initiation. 

Giancarlo: Tell us a little bit about Kriya Yoga.

Kriya 

Johan: Yoga is, for those, would be highly recommended if people haven’t read Autobiography of a Yogi, which is, um, the story of Paramahansa Yogananda. And his guru, Sri Mahasaya, and his guru Babaji, their guru, um, Mahavatar, who’s, you know, the, the, the guy basically who [00:25:00] achieved immortality, uh, at a very young age, so he kept his, his youthful body.

And, um, the, um, Self Realization Fellowship in America is, is also Kriya Yoga. And then for me, that became my path for a long time. And then also I got deeply into Ashtanga Yoga. And so at one time I had a five hour a day practice where I was doing, An hour of crea in the morning, three hours of Ang and an hour of CRE at night, you know, which you can imagine is not necessarily super sustainable unless you completely choose that path.

And then the, the pana was also a powerful experience for me. I would say other teachers have definitely been master plants. For me, I would say five, MEO uh, DMT was a very profound experience as well. I accidentally smoked a four to five person dose, had a 45 minute journey instead of a five. And, um, you know, [00:26:00] fully, fully died a death of identity in a way where I remember, um, you know, falling over.

And, uh, cause I was just like, Oh, this is just like a little puff, you know? And then I remember the first thing I, I heard, experienced when I dropped into that state was God literally saying to me, I got you. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. 

Johan: You know, and then just being in that state for 45 minutes of God experience and remembering that we’re all God, God is divine.

We are him her it. And we’ve chosen this lifetime to have this profound experience of forgetting and remembering, 

Giancarlo: yeah, and radical acceptance. Yeah. Favemio, which is the The secretion, the poison secretion of the toad from from the Sonora Desert. People are saying that for the first time, I feel completely accepted.

And you don’t know that because you were born already accepted. But [00:27:00] for us, it’s game changer. You go through life in a different way when you know that. It’s okay. I go too. 

Johan: Yeah. And how we all, you know, come here to play different parts for each other and how, and Alan Watts has been very profound for me in, in his teachings and just understanding that you can’t have expansion without contraction.

It’s impossible. You know, you can’t have black without white. You can’t have masculine without feminine. We all, it’s all necessary, you know, which is again, the Buddhist teaching of acceptance. Um, and, um, and to me, Uh, just, and for our teaching with Rachel, it’s such an intrinsic part of understanding and celebrating the contraction, welcoming the contraction.

What do 

Giancarlo: you mean by contraction? 

Johan: Contraction meaning like difficult, challenging moments, difficult, challenging people, you know, crisis when there’s a rupture, a tension, yeah, death of [00:28:00] identity, death of, you know, something, right? Or things falling apart. How that is so necessary in order for there to be any sort of growth and expansion.

And if we change the narrative, if we change the story, that this is wrong, this is bad, this shouldn’t be happening, into, my gosh, this is a blessing, what a beautiful, difficult, challenging blessing. However, I know that this blessing, this contraction is leading us to another expansion. into another portal, into another universe that’s even more amazing than the one that we’re in now.

You know, how that changes our relationship with challenges and difficulties. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, very well said. And I want to stress that again for the listener, because, you know, people, especially in this moment in time, there’s a lot of crisis from every type. Financial crisis, cultural crisis, environmental crisis.

And I can see people getting, you know, really beaten up. [00:29:00] And, uh, and, and I want to remind, we discussed that yesterday with Sanai and Rudy, you know, the most transforming moment of your life, uh, just after a crisis. And you only grow through crisis and, and the crisis are an incredible opportunity for growth and change.

So this is amazing. Okay. So, Rachel, tell us a little bit about your cultural framework and what inspire you to create your program. Um, and then we would love to go a little bit more in detail. On how you guys, um, work together and separate what what’s your offering for the world. 

Rachel: Yeah. I think that when I, you know, at the end of New York times, um, that was when I was like deeply craving something different.

I had been practicing yoga since I was 12. So it was like in that world. And then I did my yoga teacher training and that was sort of like an excuse in New York in New York team. No, no. I had, um, yoga to the people, [00:30:00] which was a place I had practiced in, in my, um, very, uh, poor college days, um, because they provided for yoga and a lot of a lot of the way.

Um, and yeah, that was just like an excuse to, you know, to give my friends. I can’t go to party because I have yoga tomorrow and I’m in training. And then that really thrust me into, okay, I’m moving to California and I had sort of the plan in mind. I’m moving to California. I’m doing mushrooms. I’m doing ayahuasca.

I’m going to burning man. I’m, I’m, I’m doing meditation. Like I’m really, I’m interjecting myself into this world that I know is. He’s mine, right? And I was in it in New York, but I was like the black sheep, you know, it was like, I was with the club kids and the fashion kids, which is still a huge part of my life.

And I love, but I was the odd man out and sort of practicing by myself and really desperate for community. And then, you know, Very quickly, once I moved to LA, Johan and I met after four months. It was [00:31:00] very like a cosmic meet cute and We went on on that path. It was like, you know I did mushrooms and then I did ayahuasca and then we did acid for the first time and and then Then we did DMT and it was like this rapid accelerated experience and I’m you know Incredibly grateful for my own spirit guiding me there because I really went to LA with very clear boundaries.

I made a promise to myself that I was going to say no to all of the things I had already done and say yes to the things that felt exciting and scary. So, and that’s what led me to Johan and to this community of people who, who spoke the same language as I did. And Yeah, it was like getting, you know, getting on a rocket ship.

It was very fast. And then really through, through partnership with Johan came this sort of really interesting concept around integrating divine feminine energy and that was something that we had discussed a lot and I felt [00:32:00] really honestly completely lost around because In my, the beginning of my New York days, it was a lot of, you know, uh, drunken, drug fueled sexual encounters and not a lot of partnership or connection whatsoever and experiencing a lot of shame around my sexuality and sensuality as a woman.

And so I shut that down for a long, long time. And then being in The Container with Johan, he was really encouraging me and inviting me to be a woman. open in my power in a way that was really scary at first. And it just thrust me down this incredible journey. And like when we met, I had just got initiated into Korea.

Like we, we, And we joined paths at this really pivotal time I think for both of us and together started this like deep karmic curriculum of, of what I would imagine is like integrating the divine feminine and the sacred masculine of like what does that actually mean to [00:33:00] hold the space within ourselves and for each other and then therefore through our community.

And that was when I really birthed, um, Wild Woman, which was my first. You know, like experiences, because I knew that if I was feeling this way, then other women were feeling this way. And then I knew from my past that the most important thing is to create safe and sacred containers for people to express and experience and integrate.

And then I felt that that was one of the things that was missing. And so, yeah, that’s really just all kind of thrust together and, and started this incredible, profound journey of holding space for women, which is, which was, a life changing moment in my life. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, amazing. This is, of course, very important.

And a lot of people would resonate. People think that, you know, with the sexual revolution and all this sex positivism, there’s so much happy, beautiful sex around. But yeah, there is still a lot of frustration and disenchantment. And you know, I follow this English podcaster called [00:34:00] Chris Williamson, who goes very deep in understanding the sexual habit of the new generation.

And The statistics are horrendous, like more than 50 percent of men below 30 have been celibate involuntarily for a year. There’s so much, um, um, you know, objectification, commercialization, even of the ladies now with, uh, with only fans and the, the pornography, there’s really a need to, to, to, to re learn how to harness that sexual energy in a, in a more divine way.

But so from your biography, when you talk about, um, communication, alchemy, sensuality through embodiment, trauma release, dynamic Tantra, um, can you tell us a little bit more about dynamic Tantra, for example? 

Rachel: Yeah. For, for me, I think that dynamic Tantra is really the full awareness that life is dynamic and Transcribed that the subtleties [00:35:00] of our physical being are pointing us in directions, like specifically when we are feeling a point of tension or contraction, that that is a signal from the universe.

And to be very acutely aware of what’s happening in our sphere at all times, right? So to me, Tantra really means, Like absolute awareness all in all moments, and then using that raw material that arises for our ultimate transformation. And so. Being, you know, I think that in, in my experience in the past, especially in, in New York days, there was so much of, um, rigidity and, and like, what would be the right word, like taking everything away.

And I understand the importance of that. And I went through that. There was periods of my life where I was celibate multiple times where I was sober. And I think it’s a. very important part of the journey. And then from that, [00:36:00] I believe that there is a massive importance of how to practice our presence in every single moment, especially when we are intoxicated, when we are in experiencing rupture or adversity, and how do we handle our divinity in those moments?

How do we use, as Johanna was expressing, this contraction for expansion? And It’s sort of the awareness that as we’re talking about, you know, being divine beings and so much of us know this, we know that where the creed is of our reality and, and then we have these really traumatic experiences in our life.

And uh, Part of us, our human is like, I would, I would never create this, I would never create this much hurt in my own life. That’s really where our divinity comes in. It creates these absolutely perfect detail oriented situations that force us into a radical transformation that our human 3D reality would never choose.

You would never choose, you know, to be [00:37:00] raped or to be cheated on or to be beaten because We wouldn’t put yourself through that much pain, but our soul puts us through this experience to show us that nothing can break us. And when we have that visceral experience and can guide ourselves through it on our own, it’s, um, it’s, it’s what I like to call these triumphant moments of remembering that, that we are infinite, you know, and, and that merging between like dynamic tantra is really like the finite experience of being human and the infinite experience of being divine.

Giancarlo: So the core of your teaching is really dealing with contraction. 

Rachel: Yes. And, and learning how to, to get turned on by it and to, and to, and to experience. Yeah. To understand that that is Eros and it is erotic and it is a source of great power and pleasure when we learn how to alchemize it, you know, with awareness, with responsibility, with [00:38:00] also experiencing like.

Pain is a massively important part of our existence and so many of us shy away from it. And then I think. Um, can miss, um, what it’s actually there for. And when we miss what pain is, it can have a tendency to turn into suffering. But when we really actively see what the pain is, then it can turn into this pleasurable experience of, of being an alchemist and not letting anything, um, like destroy you, but make, you know, you break open into a new version of yourself.

Giancarlo: This is so interesting. But so maybe can you, because I’m, I’m not familiar with this concept of. Crisis and pain being an erotic experience. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? Because it sounds good. 

Rachel: Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, you know, um, this has been, again, my, my experience because, you know, even though the, the childhood and being sick, like when I think about my childhood, I have nothing but positive [00:39:00] memories.

I would say the first, you know, um, 20, 30 years of my life was really like positive and light and focused on the light and I had pain and experiences, but I, I didn’t allow myself to go into pain. I was, when I became like positive, it was like no negativity, no pain. all positivity. This is the path. Johan remembers this deeply.

This is the path, and I was in a way avoiding, um, feeling anything deeply. 

Johan: She was wearing triple, triple uh, rose colored glasses all the time. Yeah, I was in a I was I was like, let me shatter those. Yeah, I was in a rose 

Rachel: colored glass bubble, and And through our experiences as a couple, where it, it, it broke me, um, open in a way that, like, again, it was past my own control.

It was out of my control. And it was deeply painful, devastating, you know, and I [00:40:00] remember two moments specifically, In that time where it was, I had no choice but to let go. I couldn’t do anything else. And it was so cathartic. I think it probably similar to the psychedelic experiences. It was so cathartic to not put a positive spin on it.

But to just On anything. On anything. But to just be, to feel. To be the emotion, like a tidal wave moving through me. And I remember sitting on our stoop in Topanga and, and, you know, smoking a tobacco and, and like had been hysterical and just looking out with this blankness of being like, I don’t know who I am and, and what to do.

And there was the next moment was like, Ooh, how exciting is that? You know, because it broke away this version of who I thought I had to be, which was nice all the time and keeping [00:41:00] everything together with everyone and, and, you know, everything’s okay and great. And it was like, Oh, 

Giancarlo: it’s the excitement of the unknown, 

Rachel: excitement of the unknown.

And then that led me into really the deep path of which is so much of my work now, especially with women is our sacred rage. And once I started to. actively participate in that, you know, when you allow yourself again, in a safe, sacred way, you’re not pointing this rage at a particular person. You have a container to express it.

freely, wildly. The only thing you can’t do is hurt yourself or another. So anything is allowed. The freedom of that expression, Oh my God, it’s like, it makes me emotional and like a full body chills is so electrifying and erotic because it’s aliveness. And it’s the same feeling in a way. It happens when you’re having a deep, profound [00:42:00] orgasm.

Your heart is pumping, you’re sweating, you know, your, your, your senses are heightened, you’re aware and you’re, you have in a way no control. You’re giving your whole energy up to something beyond you. It’s um, it’s an incredible experience. 

Giancarlo: Beautiful. I think this understanding would really help a lot of people, you know, when you’re in crisis, feel the excitement.

Yeah. Yeah. But so let me ask you this because I explore a little bit. I did an ISTA level one two months ago and I for the first time I think start to understand the difference between sexuality and eros. Um, I mean, for me was, you know, we associate sexuality with, with, with the sense of last and desire to engage sexually with the person.

And to not to own it, but to go, you know, to, to go to as intercourse where it’s like [00:43:00] I there’s different moment in this, in this retreat where I felt the familiar sense of arrows of excitement, but without the desire to own, you know, without the hard on, without the lower chakra, but, but the butterfly here.

And there was also another, um, exercise and. The Easter people ask not to disclose too much to preserve the, you know, surprise effect. But there was one, how can I say without disclosing too much, there was a moment of, of, of nudity that they call it the temple. And, and I felt, um, a mystical experience. I felt spirit like, like in an ayahuasca ceremony.

I felt that sense of. You know, taking away acceptance, deference, humbleness, gratitude, that frequency of when spirit come and see you. Yeah. You know, I have goosebumps. And I would never imagine to. to feel that in that [00:44:00] environment. But so how would you explain difference between Eros and sexuality? 

Rachel: Yeah, I love, I love that.

And I, I deeply agree. It’s like, I wouldn’t even categorize myself as like a sacred, I don’t categorize myself as a sacred sexuality teacher. I, I’m a sacred sensuality teacher, which is really Eros, which is, you know, understanding that our senses are informing us in all moments. Right. And I think exactly to what you said that Sexuality can in a way from my perspective pigeonhole us into this that pleasure is only in sex and missing this opportunity to experience the everything else that is available right into to get turned on by our Evolution and if you think about our senses when we’re experiencing a contraction or something painful or something challenging you and you are able to To ride that wave consciously, with integrity, with honesty, and [00:45:00] awareness, it is so important.

It’s so erotic. I don’t even know how to describe it. I’m thinking about a moment when we were in a deep contraction. That was right before my like 34th birthday. And, you know, I had crossed a boundary and Johan was holding space for me and guiding me through this process and really guiding me to a deep, deep shadow aspect of myself that had been really kept down.

And I was, we’re like in our foyer and I was, He’s wailing, crying as he is beautifully guiding me through this process. And I was aware like outside of myself, sort of like above my head being like, Oh my God, this is such a deep, powerful breakthrough right here of awareness that the sensuality and sacred sensuality is, is guiding us into pleasure of all experiences, not just sex.

And that automatically makes sex even better, right? And it’s all leading back to that. And I obviously. deeply believe in the sacred spiritual aspect of sex, but not to [00:46:00] forget about every, you know, aspect of our life. Like specifically, you know, most of my life I was deeply afraid of, you know, any sort of confrontation, deeply afraid.

I was trying to keep everything calm. And now I’ve with these tools that we’ve You know practice and have come through us. I’m not afraid of confrontation. I’m excited by it So if there is a someone calls you and it’s like hey, we need to talk Usually the op the reaction is like your stomach falls You’re like, I don’t know what to and I get turned on because I know that it’s an opportunity For me to be in my mastery and to express myself love and kindness to be in my truth You know, you know With sexuality, it’s all about, so much of it is about transgression, right?

Pornography and all of these things is like, the forbidden and all of this stuff, and, and my sort of inquiry through Yohan and I’s experience for the last, really, six years has been the opposite of transgression is transgression. [00:47:00] Liberated truth, and that is even more exciting and exhilarating when you can speak the deepest tantric truth of your experience with love and kindness and responsibility.

It creates moments in time that are like psychedelic experience. It’s mind blowing. Well, that’s beautiful. 

Johan: I would love to add to that. Um, you know, for me, to, to go back to your question, um, between sort of sexuality, sensuality, one of the things that I’ve learned and that we teach and has been really profound and powerful is just a simple act of, uh, and we give this to our clients quite often, is take the orgasm out of the equation.

And when you take the orgasm out of the equation, the, the, the journey becomes a destination, right? And so therefore everything becomes erotic because your body, your energy body, your kaha body is [00:48:00] so full. And when you’re more present, so every moment can become erotic. When you look at a flower, it’s erotic.

You look at the sunset, it’s erotic. When you eat, it’s erotic. Definitely when you eat. And if you guys haven’t experienced the Pyramid Breath Method, It’s a very erotic. Very. And, and the whole point of it is how do we take this energy that’s usually concentrated in the sexual organs and then those chakras in that region and how do we invite that energy to the heart, to the brain?

How do we open the channel from below as well as from above to meet at the heart? And then the, it becomes this experience of like, oh, Heartgasm, you know, where you live in the state of like joy and love and connection that’s erotic, but it’s not sexual necessarily. It can, you can cultivate that energy in that direction if there’s a desire, but it’s not the only pathway for it.

Rather, it really expresses through your whole being. And, and [00:49:00] then everything that you do becomes that. And people go like, what are you like, what are you using? Are you using a special lotion or an oil or like, what’s, what’s your secret, you know? And, and so it’s, it’s really like how becoming masters of energy, how do we take that energy from this region to the heart?

You know, how do we cultivate that? And then from the heart, everything else is, is informed by the heart energy. And then it’s just ecstatic in a whole different way and so sustainable and so clean. It doesn’t mean that you can’t fuck and do, you know, go crazy and go into fantasy and go, you know, do all the transgression things.

But now it’s all of it is with awareness, which is even sexier, even more fun. And you’re not hurting anybody. You’re not doing it in secret. You don’t have consequences like you normally would, where it’s like, you know, you’ve got to live with guilt and shame and, you know, live in the shadows. Like all that [00:50:00] stuff is now brought into the light and it’s just as juicy and it’s sustainable.

Giancarlo: So since we are here talking, you mentioned the pyramid breath. This is a little bit of the, one of the pillar of your teaching. So we will put on the show notes a video, uh, but describe it a little bit if you can. And also. How do you use it within a more holistic, I imagine, consultancy? 

Johan: So, Pyramid Breath is a practice that, that was channeled through me.

Um, and, um, it uses basically three different modes. And the first one is really about creating a lot of heat, a lot of energy with fast breaths in and out. And we’re, we’re, we’re getting the body, the mind, everything in the body activated. Because part of the practice is we use a lot of imagination. And in front of us, we imagine there is this fire of, uh, transformation.

And so, everything that [00:51:00] comes out of us that has been unacknowledged or unexpressed or rage or anger or limiting beliefs, anything like that, we offer to the fire for transformation. Not, as we now know, energy doesn’t get destroyed, energy gets transformed. So, through this practice we become masters of transformation.

I call it sacred alchemy, right? Above us is an infinite field of love, below us is an infinite field of ocean, which we draw from. for this alchemy. And so, the first part is really getting really hot, heated, like we become bellows for the fire, right? The second part, we slow it down and add in sensuality, getting really embodied, get really deeply expressed through sound and, and feeling of any of the discomforts, limiting beliefs, again, like go even deeper into it now that we’ve shut down sort of the critic up here in the brain.

And the body’s able to express just through sound, without words, and through, uh, movement, anything that’s [00:52:00] been, it’s been experiencing. And then the third part is, now taking all this energy, we will, and, you know, we die this proverbial death of this imaginary death of identity into the fire. And then our rebirth into the fire is pure creativity, pure energy.

And now it becomes, how do we visualize, What we desire and then how do we utilize all the energies present? To fuel that vision and then to embody that vision. So there’s a a part where we do like a microcosmic orbit where we take all the energy that’s available to us, and then again, the, the mind, the brain is like 5% and the unconscious is 95%.

That’s the resonance that we’re constantly giving off in the world. So if we can program or reprogram the 95% to match the 5%. Then we’re a hundred percent resonating, uh, what we are drawing to us and what we desire. So we don’t have to think about it all the time, [00:53:00] you know. We don’t have to do a mantra all the time because our body’s doing that mantra.

The body’s the living embodiment of that mantra all the time. So when people meet us, they’re like, Oh my God, like, what’s going on? I feel so good to be in your presence, or, you know, how can I support you in, in your desires because your body isn’t giving off signals that are dissonant. There isn’t dissonance or there isn’t like, I want this, but I don’t want that.

I have this limiting belief that money is bad, but yet I want to be rich, right? Which is most people have these contractions or these conflicting, conflicting beliefs that are living in them and they don’t even know about it. And so. The Pyramid Breath Method really is a way to, um, alchemize all those beliefs, because all it is is energy.

It’s all here for us, right? Into unlimited beliefs, and so that you are, are in the state of, um, constantly Remaking the story, remaking your body, remaking your mind, remaking your energy in [00:54:00] such a way that you’re resonating and drawing to you incredible experiences, amazing people alignments. Uh, so they can, our mantra that we use a lot is better and better forever and ever.

And it isn’t from a place of lack, but it’s the belief that things truly can get better and better forever and ever, which then eliminates all the other limiting beliefs. And, you know, if you guys follow us on Instagram or, you know, you’ve known us for a while, you, you, one of the greatest compliments that we get when we travel the world is like, wow, you guys are just like you present yourself on Instagram, which to us is like how we present ourselves is we’re madly in love.

We’re embodiments of our teachings. We help people all over the world to remember that they’re, Super powerful and empowered to live the most incredible lives that they are the event. It’s not an outside event, right? And so how the Pyramid Breath practice [00:55:00] works is it reminds you of that every time you do it.

Rachel: Well, I also think that the aspect of it, it’s such an embodied practice and it really, really focuses on safe space to Like, explore your weirdness and your wildness. And I think that, you know, as kids, we’re, we’re designed to do that. And then along the way, we shut this part of us down and there’s this like battle that we’re experiencing.

And so to actively have this, this, uh, container daily where you get to return to that space, you get to throw a temper tantrum if you need it. You get to cry, you get to laugh hysterically, you get to feel orgasmic pleasure. You just get to be. Like full expression. It’s, um, it’s incredibly freeing because it’s like, you know, There, I’ll say for both of us, there’s videos and pictures of us all over the, all over the internet looking crazy.

And so I just, yeah, 

Giancarlo: we’re, we’re 

Rachel: [00:56:00] during the breathing, like we’re breathing all, you know, there’s, there’s tons of things on Instagram and I do this breath work in every single one of my courses. How 

Giancarlo: long is the breathing for? 

Johan: Depends. Depends. Yeah. Depends how deep you want to go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are, you know, there are practices that are five minutes long, there are practices that are, you know, 45 minutes long, and usually for us, like, 45 minutes is a pretty good, uh, uh, distance, unless we’re teaching, like, a longer, uh, retreat workshop, we might go deeper into it, but the beauty of this practice is that even in five, seven minutes, You will feel a visceral difference.

It’s not like, Oh, I think I felt something. Yeah, that was cute. And like, holy fuck, I’m sweating. I, you know, I just screamed, I expressed, I feel alive, you know, like, it’s a, it’s, it’s like a wow experience. 

Giancarlo: So what is the science behind it? Do you over oxygenate your brain? You know, what’s happening in the brain with this kind of?

Johan: So what happens is we are actually activating them. deeper part of our nervous system that is, uh, that is the, I forget [00:57:00] all the right words for the nervous system, basically the animal brain. 

Rachel: Yeah, your limbic, your, yeah. Your 

Johan: limbic brain. So we were actually taking blood away from our prefrontal cortex and we go into our animal body, which then tends to hold the contractions.

The trauma. To hold the trauma. Wounding. And wounding. And then we give that part of ourself off. Permission to just wild out, like go crazy, express yourself, you know, and then when that’s been, when that has happened, our nervous system just calms way down and opens up and going deeper into yoga and understanding how You know, Shashumna, Ida, Pingala, Nadis, like all the all the energy channels work.

Because once the tension is gone. 

Giancarlo: What is this three energy you mentioned? 

Johan: So Shashumna is the main energy channel in our spine. 

Rachel: Your central channel. Ida 

Johan: is in the left, Pingala is in the right, one goes up, one goes down. And and the Nadis are it’s a basically if you look at our nervous system, you you you there’s like hundreds of thousands of like nerves, right?

That’s what the the [00:58:00] In, in the Vedas, in India, in Sanskrit, it’s called Nadi, it’s energy channel. So we clear the energy channels to be more open. We open, cause there’s a lot of spine movement as well. So we literally are extending the spine, opening the spine, opening the central channel for our energy, the cerebrospinal fluid to flow.

And once our nervous system is open and relaxed, it’s so available, for reprogramming our thoughts, literally create our reality. It’s a psychedelic experience. Yeah, exactly. And so, in a very short amount of time, we’re able to then, with our thoughts, to create a new reality for ourselves. We literally, proverbially, die a death.

You know, when I guide people through, it’s like, We, we offer ourselves to the fire in such a way that we are dying a death of our past trauma, our past experience, our future projections. And then we invite the divine [00:59:00] to guide us into a rebirth so that now we can expand our container. We can expand into better and better forever and ever.

And what does that look like? And then embodying that. So that when you’re done with the practice, you feel renewed. You feel like you have been rebirthed and reborn. And again, this can happen in a very short amount of time. And you had a lot of fun doing it and you’ve got out the stress, right? And so you’re embodied and present and radiant in a whole new way.

Giancarlo: Wow. Amazing. And talking about rebirth, it make me think that, um, Stan Grof created the holotropic breathing, right? And my wife went through it and she went through it. Full on through her birth canal again and that’s very common. 

Johan: Yeah 

Rachel: Yeah, I had a similar, I had a similar experience when I did it as well.

But 

Giancarlo: how come do you think that evolution has, um, organized for us with this heavy breathing to have this rebirth? Who knows? Who 

Johan: knows? You know, for me, what I [01:00:00] believe is that, um, when we, you know, when, when we tap into the full divine God, goddess, divine space, and remember that we are her, him, we also know that we are forever and ever into infinity.

And it’s, you know, and it’s a blessing and it’s in some ways maybe it’s, it’s a challenging blessing because you are forever and there’s, that’s all there is. And so we, I believe that we come here to have this human experience so that there’s a beginning and middle and, and there’s black and white.

There’s, you know, uh, you can be born and you can die and you can have all these experiences. And I believe that we have left ourselves Clues. Yeah. Really simple clues. Because if you didn’t remember until the very end, life can be really bleak, really difficult. Yeah, challenging. Because we’re masters of creating story.

And so if the story in the narrative in your head is constantly, life sucks, why am I here? And again, I’ve had [01:01:00] this narrative. This is my story. I don’t know what, why this is happening. What’s the point of all this? I feel trapped. I want to end my life because it’s so challenging and so difficult. When we add in with psychedelics, with breath work, with meditation, with these awareness practices, we get to be in on it.

Ah, I remember that I am God, God is divine forever choosing to have this experience because it can be fun and fulfilling. Fulfilling and magnificent and, and mind blowing and, and, and so, you know, wow, it’s so much easier to go through those difficult moments. And so, but with the psychedelics, with, you know, the mindfulness practices, with breath work, I believe that we’ve left ourselves clues to remember.

Rachel: And it’s like, you know, especially all of those things there, I think they’re hidden in such plain sight. Right. You can all, you know, breathwork is free. Meditation is [01:02:00] free. You can go into the, into the woods and, and, and dancing, singing, all of these things that when done with devotion, get you high so that you remember.

And it’s like our, you know, it’s this cosmic trick that we plan ourselves, put ourselves in this scenario because for the fun of it, really, I believe it’s 

Giancarlo: interesting. It’s almost counterintuitive, right? Because. what you call remembering the spiritual or the mystical clues happens when the mind is out of the equation.

Johan: The limiting beliefs are out of the way, you know, there’s a 

Rachel: programming and the conditioning 

Johan: in, in, um, again, and the Hindus, um, they have, you know, the different Yugas, the different times, right. And it goes, yeah, it goes in a circle and, uh, we go. And, and so According to one of my teachers, Sri Yukteswar, he said that, um, in the sort of the Kali Yuga time, we lost even the intelligence or the wisdom of how long these periods take.

Some people go, oh, it’s like [01:03:00] 140, 000 years one way and 140 the other. But really, actually, according to him, I believe it’s 12, 000 and 12, 000. And so we’re actually out of the Kali Yuga, according to him now, and we’re in this state, in this yuga called Dwapara Yuga, which is the beginning of light. And when we’re back in the Golden Age, you know, you remember all these things just, All the time.

All the technology. You’re just like, Oh, we can just, of course we’re God, of course it’s all this. And then we descend again back into Kali Yuga and on and on it goes in the circle where we lose electricity, we lose light, we lose the light, light of the awareness. We’re burning people that have the awareness.

You know, in the fire because a part of us doesn’t want that right now, you know, we want to experience the darkness. And so those are all interesting aspects to also to think about because now we’re really at a time when all of this is very exciting for us because of the internet, it’s available for everyone in the world.

Giancarlo: So how do you call the [01:04:00] positive yoga? 

Johan: I actually don’t, I don’t remember the Sanskrit name for it, but they call it the Golden Age. And how 

Giancarlo: far away are we in years? I 

Johan: believe it’s several thousand years. Away. Away. Yeah, several thousand years. 

Giancarlo: Because, you know, I, I produced this documentary based on Daniel’s Pinchback book, 2012, The Return of Quetzalcoatl.

Mm. And it’s called 2012 Time for Change. It’s on, it’s on Mango TV. And basically, we took the end of the Mayan calendar as a meme to, to speculate that this moment in time might be a tipping point in consciousness. And I remember that Daniel was also talking about Indian astrology, the Kala Yuga. that was pointing at this moment in time for a moment of transformation.

And also there’s a Hopi prophecies that point at this moment in time for, and also the Western astrology with the age of Aquarius point at this moment in time. And so we started working on that like in, you know, late nineties. And And, and we’re [01:05:00] waiting and waiting and waiting and maybe now is happening when during COVID you see like the dolphins in Venice and the word stopped and, and, you know, I would never imagine something that could happen.

And so that’s, there’s, um, there’s room for hope. So guys, let me be a little bit cheeky here. I want to, I want to please do. Okay, so I wanted to investigate a little bit your personal dynamics because you both sound super together, super centered, super aware, super, you know, I don’t know, enlightened is a big word, but definitely awake.

But then as you know, when, um, you know, when it comes to, to couple dynamics at home, all this clarity might go out the window, you know, you had like, like me, we had like an absent father. So sometimes maybe, you know, when she doesn’t come when she forgot to pick you up at the airport or something You can trigger that sense of abandonment and where he does something else.

I mean how How how [01:06:00] do you deal with triggers? How do you deal with with you know, working together living together traveling together? How much time apart? What’s what’s your secret to be just to be to be so in love and remain. So 

Rachel: I think it’s, it’s been, it’s been a long journey. I mean, it’ll be 10 years in April, they’ve been together.

So we’ve had such a beautiful, um, trajectory. And I think that, uh, in the beginning for, for whatever reason with our dynamic, we, we have just chosen to. to go into the fire of dealing with these particular ways of being. It’s like I remember in the very beginning of our relationship, we’d maybe been together for a year, we did like a very big acid journey, and there was like a dynamic between Johan and I, again, I think exactly what you said, like his background and childhood coming up against my background and childhood, I think that he had a lot of resistance towards me and my family thinking this kind of love isn’t real, this is, you [01:07:00] know, this is all fake.

you know, he was, look, I would say waiting for probably the first five years of our relationship for the other shoe to drop. Um, and there were moments when we just expressed what was there. I remember that moment specifically, and I was like, you know, the way that you’re talking to me is not creating more love.

It’s um, it’s, it’s it’s. Making me shut down, you know, it’s like death by a thousand, uh, a thousand paper cuts. And so we just kept on doing these things and really through that integrated into conscious communication, which has been the biggest thing. basis of our relationship and we’re something we’re widely passionate about and are really I think part of our mission here on the planet is to get everyone in the world to use this way of connecting because it’s we we don’t experience a lot of contraction anymore and when we do we know what to do with it because we were under We’re in the understanding and awareness of what [01:08:00] energy does right?

We all are All of us human beings have the same desire to feel connected, to feel safe, to feel in love, right? To be seen, received, heard, loved. All of those things we all want pretty much no matter who we are. And so we have the ability with language, with tonality, with body, with our energy to create that.

So when there’s triggers, it’s like, you know, I, my thought always goes to what’s really here? You know, if you’re upset at me or I’m upset at you, you know, it’s, it’s not because you didn’t take out the trash. It’s because there’s something else. It’s the memory. It’s yeah, something exactly, something underneath it and something that I like to play with specifically and I know it like our dynamic is different and he can sort of explain about me but.

With what you just expressed with the childhood like when we went through our big rupture There were moments where his I could tell that his childhood was coming up So he would be saying these words [01:09:00] But I was listening to his energy beyond what he was saying verbatim and I’m like, this is your abandonment coming up This is your your disbelief in love or that you deserve love or that you’re worthy of love And so I remember him saying well, maybe this is just who I am because you know He had done something that wasn’t Nice, maybe this is just who I am.

Maybe this is just type of person and I said no this isn’t who you are I know who you are and I’m not gonna leave you while you’re hurting even though I’m hurting too I’m gonna stand here in love and use this as an opportunity for for us to expand 

Giancarlo: Yeah, there’s so much her and beautiful and and you know, if you can When you hear words, you know, don’t listen to the words, but listen to the energy.

That’s a great tool to avoid, to be then triggered on your, you know, and get that cycle. 

Johan: I would say that, um, you know, you know, the people who we were when we first met when Rachel with a rosy color, you know, colored [01:10:00] bubbles and me who didn’t believe that Iceman, you know, Iceman, 

Giancarlo: Iceman, and, and, and pink glasses.

Yeah, exactly. 

Johan: And we really. Even though there was, the thing that has been our saving grace and was a very big part of our teaching as well is that we always shared a spiritual practice. And you know, for us, that, uh, those moments, uh, even before we, you know, had come up with conscious communication, before we embodied, you know, embodied the tools that we now embody and teach, We were able to still find a connection point through our practice together because when you just are in the mind about, you know, who’s wrong or right, I mean, it like, it’s such a dead end and it’s just a, it’s a loop.

It goes on and on and on. And so for us, And, and we remind our, our clients all the time and our audience when you even five minutes of doing breath [01:11:00] and expressing will literally change your state in such a way that you kind of almost forget about that previous narrative that you were in and you’re able to have a fresh start instead of just, you know, when we are in the same state and we are the same identity, the same energy, it’s very difficult for anything to move.

When you change your state, there’s openings. And so in the beginning, that was our saving grace. And, you know, then we went through, Rachel talks about our rupture, which is like, you know, we had falling in love with different people. We, you know, we were not connected. We, we felt very unsure. We weren’t fully expressed at all, not fully expressed at all.

And then through this experience, when shit really hit the fan and, you know, you couldn’t. Look away anymore, because it’s literally covering everything. Um, it was a moment of, of fully revealing everything. Where there was no more [01:12:00] secrets. There was no more, and this was, you know, at the, with the possibility that this will end our relationship, right?

But literally being like, here it all is. Yes, there’s been, you know, yes, I’ve cheated. Yes, I, you know, these are the things I don’t like about you. These are the things I’m afraid of. Yes, I’m in love with this other person. I’m very confused, you know, and from her, you know, and she was able to, for me, because I kind of went through this process first, able to really hold me in it.

And then once I was flip flopping like a fish and didn’t know what to do and she held that space for me, not knowing if she wanted to go on, then when she felt safe enough that I was steady enough, then she got to do the same. And through that process, really for us, was, uh, uh, you know, she held me through my death into my rebirth, and I held her through her death into her rebirth.

And through that experience, even though it took, It [01:13:00] took us like a year or a year and a half for, you know, to recover, to fully trust each other again and, and all of that, but the amount of respect that we have for each other, the amount, the amount of trust that was created through that experience and then the desire to be in discover, discovery, and to create for other people who clearly are going through this all over the world, tools and ways to Uh, not be afraid of that moment and then how to make that moment when it arises better so that you have an arsenal of skills and tools at your disposal to be fully expressed.

Maybe that moment doesn’t even need to happen because you have been able to express yourself fully before it. Right? And knowing that it shall come unless you do express yourself, you know, which gives you the impetus to handle stuff right away. So, most of us, [01:14:00] when a contraction happens or something happens, we just tuck it away.

We’re like, uh, I don’t want to deal with it. Now is not the right time. Or maybe you just blow up right away. And so, and, and, and, It makes the other person shut down, depending on your dynamic and the way that you’re raised and all that, but how can we create a way through it all in a way where, like Rachel was expressing before, we’re no longer afraid of the contraction.

We can get excited about it. Yes, it’s still intense, but we get excited about it because we know that the contraction is leading us. And so for us in retrospect, looking back, we were so grateful for all of the people that were, you know, in this journey with us for all of the actors that we cast in our movie so that they would play out these parts.

So we would feel all this desperation, all the stakes that the possibility of losing each other without all these moments and all the heaviness, all the bigness of it. We wouldn’t be who we are [01:15:00] today. We wouldn’t know what we now know. We wouldn’t be able to serve ourselves, each other, and the world in the capacity that we can.

We’re no longer afraid of our own darkness. We’re no longer afraid of anybody else’s darkness. We’re like, bring it, bring it to the fireside. Let’s look at it together. Let’s process it together. Let’s take away the shame. Let’s take away the story that it’s wrong, that it’s bad, that it shouldn’t be here.

It’s here for us. 

Rachel: I think like the two main things. That I’m hearing from you is Like the two things that we’ve taken is our spirit. We’ve had a spiritual practice. We’ve been practicing together for almost 10 years. 

Giancarlo: But how does it look like when you say spiritual practice is like, 

Rachel: I mean, I mean, when we first got together, it was Korea.

I mean, when we first got together, we would do two hours of Korea every single day. And now it’s, you know, It’s trans, you know, transformed into pyramid breath, but so every day, I would say, you know, practically every single day, you know, [01:16:00] once in a while, if we have an early 6am flight, we maybe miss a practice, but pretty much on a daily basis, we are sitting down, we are going inside, we are expressing what is there, and we are That’s it.

Reflecting on it, you know, like what’s how is your practice? What’s coming through for you? 

Johan: And that’s only a part 

Rachel: of 

Johan: it. I mean we do a gratitude practice every day But i’m saying but 

Rachel: but but i’m I want to start with that because that’s been there from the beginning We’ve had that from day one That’s how we met the first date we ever went on we went and meditated together at the beach and then the other thing is Curiosity.

Like when, if we have our practice, which is connecting us to our remembering on a daily basis and then curiosity of like, why is this happening? What is this here for? What does this mean? You know, it’s, it’s less about like, Oh, just the thing happened. But what you know, the discovery and the curiosity has been such a potent avenue for our transformation.

Because [01:17:00] instead of like, you know, when people always ask me this, like, you know, when you’re on cheated on me, it, the question to me is It’s like, tell me why, what was going through? I want to know about that. Not in a sense of like, why did you do that? But like, okay, there was a reason why you did it. Let’s talk about that.

What were you unfulfilled with yourself or with me or with our relationship? Like those are the interesting questions that lead to lead us back to connection versus just being in this, this sort of playing field of right and wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which most of us are in. 

Giancarlo: Yeah, yeah. But so, we produced a documentary called Monogamish.

Mm hmm. Uh, and Esther Perel says that, um, you know, there is a conflict between, you know, You know, human nature, you know, on one side we want intimacy, predictability, safety, intimacy. On the other we want adventure [01:18:00] and, and, and novelty and the forbidden. And so this is, this is not a conflict we solve, it’s a paradox we manage.

And so, you know, I, especially in Ibiza and the Burning Man friend, and you know, it’s very common to have a non consensual or ethical non monogamous relationship. So I asked permission to ask, I said, ask what you want, maybe we don’t answer. So you guys are monogamous or not? 

Rachel: We’ve had experiences with being open.

I would say that we’re, I don’t really like to use labels. I would say that we’re very committed and very devoted. And if there is a person or people that arise in our sphere that are in alignment and we’re both a fuck yes to, and, and. are expanding our container and consciousness in a positive way, then we’re open to that experience.

We’ve had one together, or I mean, we’re, it’s, it’s all, I think we’re open when it feels right. And we’ve had experiences when it feels right. And we’ve had many experiences where it doesn’t feel right. So [01:19:00] you learn from that. And I think that we don’t like to put ourselves in a box. 

Johan: I would, I would use going back to what you said, my love, which whether it’s our practice.

Whether it’s, you know, the practice of just being alive, or our own spiritual practice, or the way that we approach sexuality, we are in discovery. 

Rachel: Yeah. 

Johan: And that’s the, you know, one of the martial arts that was my favorite that I learned, um, which was Krav Maga, which is an Israeli military martial art. And what I loved about them versus the other sort of older techniques, and I would say Jiu Jitsu is similar, is that they’re constantly evolving.

Right. It hasn’t become rigid, right? If there’s a new weapon, if there’s a new thing that anything comes up, how do we adapt? And similarly with the spiritual practice, like Pyramid Breath is constantly evolving, constantly changing. When things become rigid, you know, when, it’s the same for me, the example is like when a person decides [01:20:00] that they’re, I’m now a grown up, which then goes, okay, so you’ve stopped learning.

You’ve stopped being discovered. You’re now, you’re the ultimate sort of, you know, You know, uh, I now know everything. There’s nothing more to learn. This is how everything is. And life just keeps going. Life never becomes rigid. Life is constantly dynamic and changing, you know. So we also, with our practices, with our mindsets, with our bodies, with our beings, We, we get to stay in that discovery and that’s what makes everything so fun.

You know, I love Esther Perel and, and again, you know, all of the teachers, they have their own unique take on things and we’ve learned so much from them. I’m currently listening to a book by Jamie Weald, Recapture the Rapture, you know, where he kind of, kind of goes further than maybe Esther Perel into the exploration of how can you be in a committed relationship and explore, um, Love and Tantra and, you know, [01:21:00] Extarsis and ecstasy through that experience so that it gets better and better forever and ever.

Giancarlo: With others or within the couple? Within 

Johan: the couple. 

Rachel: And I think that’s what, like, to, to, what we were expressing before and exactly what you said, like, I hear that sort of, that, It’s like, well, we want to be really intimate and really close and really committed. But if we, if we do that, if we say everything, then the mystery goes away.

And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that’s, I don’t, I agree with that at all. I think that when you are actually committed to liberated truth, the honesty is exactly what Johan is saying. You are ever evolving. And so what actually takes place is like you become these two, Deeply mysterious beings who feel completely intimate and connected.

Johan: And I would say also, you know, walking down or, you know, having lunch in Ibiza town in the square, we’re constantly like, Oh my God, check out that fucking [01:22:00] hot girl or guy or like, you know, we’re constantly, I guess apparel, you know, would say third energy. We’re a third energy in our relationship. Every moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so we’re izing bringing it into the bedroom and Yeah. Yeah. And so for us, that’s our current state, you know, and again, we’re, we’re evolving, we’re open to having different experiences and so it’s fun for us. Our secret, and this is the secret we teach our, our couples, is be in on it together, be teammates, so that you on, 

Giancarlo: on this, on 

Johan: everything, on everything, every, be teammates, on everything.

So that. So, you’ve, your partner feels that you’re on the same team. You’re not on the same team, one being the captain and the other being co captain. You’re both captaining. And so, therefore, you’re in on it together and, and then when you are willing to look at all of your fears or your limiting beliefs or whatever.

You know, I feel jealous or insecure [01:23:00] around this. Well, let’s talk about it. Exactly. You know, and how can I make, make, make it so that you feel less? Is it something that I’m doing or not doing right? And then finding this place in your togetherness when you feel really safe. that you are fully expressed and, and, and then finding your own way of navigating the world together in your explorations of sensuality, sexuality, spirituality, all of it.

Make it your own. We’re all so unique. And when the two unique people come together, you get to create your own way. of being in discovery versus trying to do the Esther Perel way or doing this way or that way, whatever. Take from everyone what works for you and create your own way. 

Giancarlo: But so, so for example, if there is a third person, male or female, that you feel fit now in your journey, in your growth, and you guys have, consent or [01:24:00] blessing, but then is it something you share or it’s more than us don’t tell?

No, we 

Rachel: share. Absolutely share. No, it’s because I just, I feel, I mean, I’ll speak for myself. I specifically feel everything so I can feel energetically if there’s something in the space. That’s what was sort of the issue in the beginning of our relationship is that we were sensing something that wasn’t fully expressed in both of us, but not saying it.

And so, and I think that’s, Probably what most couples are experiencing. And so for us, we have found that Transparency actually equates for us to deep intimacy and passion. 

Giancarlo: That’s that’s more difficult I must admit then yes, then, you know, you can have mature couple that have done all the work that you know, really Centered and aware.

And they say, Listen, you know, I understand, you know, the surplus of evolutionary energy. Um, and, and, and we’ll, you know, I trust you that you would engage in a [01:25:00] conscious manner. But, you know, I don’t want to see, you know, like, that’s what I would, you know, we’ve been now after my wife said, Listen, you know, give me 10 years of marriage, then we’ll discuss.

So we’re not there yet. We have another few years. But if ever this we decide to do some sort of opening, I see myself more doing some sort of like, you know, I trust you that, you know, going to ruin what we have, but I don’t want to detail. So, yeah, well, 

Johan: you know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting because we, like Rachel alluded to, you know, Uh, especially if I may, you know, uh, Rachel was sort of, uh, 

Rachel: her, you 

Johan: know, is, is like, she loves to slow burn, you know, I love tension, you know, it’s like, it’s like, it’s, you know, it’s a foreplay that goes on for years.

And that was sort of her way of exploring. And from her perspective at the time, you know, she was like, I’m fully expressed to you, my dear husband in it, but there was a whole lot of [01:26:00] transgression happening and it was a blind spot for her that she got to learn about and see how actually that was very hurtful for me.

Because what we discover through this process is we’re both like Rachel said, very sensitive people. And so if my wife or, you know, your husband or somebody is, is in. This love affair that you can feel, but you don’t know about. 

Rachel: Ooh, honey. 

Johan: It’s, it’s so, it’s, it’s like our body again, it’s the 5 percent could be like, okay, I’m cool.

You’re in a thing, but you’re 95 percent feels everything. Yeah, it’s exactly. And then, you know, and, and it’s like, because you don’t know, you don’t want to know, you don’t talk about it. It was, it’s doing is, and Rachel had the saying is don’t let your closeness block you from intimacy. So it’s, it’s. You know, it’s it’s not wanting to know and but you feel it in the field but you’re not addressing it is actually making creating more distance and and you don’t feel that intimacy and love [01:27:00] because you’re you’re you’re You know, with intention, not discussing, because you think the story that you create or have created is going to be too hurtful.

Rachel: And I think to exactly what you said, baby, that I think is so fascinating is, again, all of these things that we’re doing are just wonderful. opportunities to expand our consciousness, right? And so the, the idea, which it takes, it definitely takes a lot of work of him coming home after he fell in love with this woman and expressing to me that the needs that were met through her that didn’t feel met by me.

And of course, in, in that moment, your ego is like, no, but, And what if we take that as an opportunity to grow, meaning like our sexuality and sensuality and our connection passion wise, drastically, dramatically changed for the better when we started to really talk about what we were getting from other partners, right?

You know, like we in the bedroom, in the bedroom, [01:28:00] meaning like, you know, with this, with this man that I had, you know, this, you know, relationship with it was I was getting this experience that was evoking this part of me that was so exciting and instead of it just being ours, then I brought it back and we talked about it and this is a testament to Johan of like, let’s talk about it.

And then we were able to incorporate that with our own lovemaking and that heightened everything and vice versa. And so I think that that. That is an upper and it’s not for everyone. This is obviously just what we have found, but I think it’s an opportunity for us to again continuously get over our ego and get into growth.

Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The lover, the occasional lover can be a teacher. 

Rachel: Yes. 

Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. There’s so many new ideas in this podcast. Thank you so much. Um, also I want to just mention this. My friend Jorge Ferrer is a professor of sexuality. He wrote a book called Novogamy and he came on the podcast a couple of times [01:29:00] and his idea is that in the same way with the polarized gender, you know, there’s some, not so much male female, but you know, it’s more becoming more fluid.

He proposed to depolarize monogamy and non monogamy because he says this polarization doesn’t bring anything positive. It’s just accentuate the tension and contraction of the monogamous people. Tell the number of your guys are all pigs and the non monogamous telling the monogamous you’re all boring and, and, and you like, you know, losing your, your, your vitality by.

by not embracing your sexuality after so many years. A lot of people I know have stopped having sex. And, and he proposed Novogamy, which is in, which is more like a spectrum. Yes. And, and I like that, you know, you guys are that, you, you are Novogamus. 

Rachel: Absolutely. I like that. It’s, it’s not explainable, it’s, it’s like any of these experiences, it’s, and I, I think both Johan and I are like, don’t believe in rigidity.

We believe in flexibility and [01:30:00] fluidity. It’s so much more fun. Our mind is gonna change moment. It’s supposed to change. We’re supposed to evolve and expand and boxes and identities just trap us and then we feel guilty or shameful if we want something different when we’re supposed to evolve. 

Johan: And I would, I would again add that I believe that all of the experiences that come our way are here for us.

And again, going back to our big rupture, You know, and it just reminded me of what you said, you know, what we got from these other people, like, what part of my feeling with Rachel was, because of her rosy glasses, she wasn’t able to see my trauma or to meet me in that place. I didn’t know that she would be able to hold me, my, my, my fullness, because from my perspective, you know, she, everything was just like peaches and cream all the time, and she was afraid of darkness.

She wouldn’t watch dark shows, for example, on TV, you know, and, and so, and then I was lacking a part of sensuality, or part of depth. That, uh, she got through this other man experience. And through this [01:31:00] experience, we both gained a whole other spectrum of, of ourselves. By having the willingness to go like, Okay, so what are you getting from this other person that I’m not yet able to give you?

Because We used and utilized that again as a, that contraction into an expansion. Instead of making up a story that we’re not enough or we could never have that even though they, those stories came up. We didn’t stuck with them. And then we got to expand into a whole other way of experiencing ourselves and each other and our relationship that is so profound.

And I really want to honor again Rachel because I don’t know if anybody else could have been on this ride with me. She so fervently and fully, relentlessly believes in love. You know, that she was able to hold that frequency through all of the ruptures, through all of the ups and [01:32:00] downs. My tendency would be to, to walk away.

And so I want to, you know, say to our audience out there, Really believe in love and believe in the power, unless you’ve been like physically, emotionally harmed in some way that is, you know, clearly comes from malice and it’s just knowing that again to what we talked to is like, don’t listen to the words.

Listen to the heart, you know, and, and, and she went into the heart, into my heart, all of the barriers that I had built, the Iceman barriers were useless because she just bypassed them with the heart energy. And that’s why our teaching again, Pyramid Breath and everything that we do is heart based. How can we take the energy from the genitals and from the brain?

And make love at the heart. Because the wisdom of the heart is the greatest wisdom. Scientifically now know that the heart reacts before the brain does to any stimuli. The heart is quicker to react, informs the brain [01:33:00] versus the other way around. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Okay, guys. We’ve been together 95 minutes. Oh my God.

Let’s, uh, just to conclude, let’s pick one each client that you think has the, I mean, I’m sure all your clients benefit from your teaching and they will have transformation, but you have to pick one, the poster child of your practice. Would you do that? 

Rachel: And just talk about it? 

Giancarlo: Just saying, in what condition did it show up?

Describe a little bit the process. What was the, 

Rachel: Oh my gosh, I have so many wonderful 

Johan: testimonials. I’m so 

Rachel: blessed to have such incredible, I’m thinking in one specifically that, um, yeah, of course that just, you know, has just made like a, she said it to me the other day. She said, you’ve, you’ve completely helped me rewire my entire brain.

And, um, you know, she’s like, now I just, uh, at anything that. happens, I know [01:34:00] what to do with, right? And I think that that’s, that’s like my specialty, my line in coaching is like, everything you’re experiencing is okay. We’re going to get through it together and like nothing that you’ve, that’s happened to you can ever define you.

And when someone like grocks that I’ve just watched her go from being like, you know, semi successful to being wildly successful. She’s full, like, you know, she came to me straight out of a breakup. She’s fully in love with her partner. She’s like, and she’s Uh, you know, just bought her first house. She’s like in her best, but she’s just like, I’m the happiest I’ve ever been.

And when things arise, I know what to do with them. It’s yeah, it’s wonderful. 

Johan: One of the things that comes to mind for me, and again, I’m so grateful to say that I have so many amazing testimonials, but. Uh, actually this one is on my site on PyramidBreath. com uh, as a video testimonial. It was, 

Rachel: uh, 

Johan: this beautiful fire captain, uh, you know, fireman who said, you know, I save people’s lives, you know, in a physical form and and you, Yohan, you save people’s [01:35:00] lives in a spiritual way where, you know, we come to you and we think we’re this one thing and we think we’re faced with these impossible impossible, uh, you know, tasks.

And, and then we have the experience and you realize that it was all story and that you have a whole life ahead of you and it’s a new beginning and it’s so. to me hearing again, having gone through deep depression myself to be, to know that it’s, there’s a cure for it, right? That there’s, you can get to the other side.

If you can alchemize that energy is the greatest compliment. And so I’m grateful that I get to receive that, um, over and over again, I get to give that gift over and over again. 

Giancarlo: Amazing. Amazing. So we will put on the show notes how to find you guys. So breadwork. com 

Johan: pyramidbreath. com. 

Giancarlo: Sorry. Pyramidbread.

com. And I am Rachel Pringle dot com and then we’ll put the Instagram links. That’s it. This one links. Perfect. Thank you so much. That was a [01:36:00] beautiful. I hope people will. I know people will enjoy and, um, you know, hopefully contact you guys and, uh, increase the list of testimonials. Thank you so much. Such an honor.

Peace.